Phil Wall is an award-winning filmmaker who has written, produced, directed, filmed, and edited three feature documentaries, and is currently in post-production on his fourth. A coach’s son, Wall played for his dad at Roanoke Catholic High School and traces his filmmaking journey back to creating highlight videos for his team’s championship seasons. He lives in Brooklyn, NY, where he works on independent and commercial narrative content.
Inspiration for The Standard (2:45)
The Standard is a feature-length documentary about a 48-hour endurance challenge hosted by special forces combat veterans. Anyone can sign up to participate, but very few finish. GoRuck, a company that makes military-grade bags, apparel, and more, created the event to mimic combat situations and test their products.
Phil had worked on some early marketing videos for the company and participated in one of their 12-hour overnight challenges. Most participants finish this overnight challenge because it’s centered on team building, but it was one of the most physically rigorous activities Phil, a longtime athlete, had ever done.
GoRuck ramped up their events a few years later and created their 48-hour challenge, a condensed version of the special forces assessment and selection criteria.
Takeaways From Filming (9:55)
Both the participants and the cadre hosting the event enter an agreement: participants train and show up ready to do whatever the cadre tells them to; meanwhile, the cadre’s job is to urge them to quit. They target the ones falling behind and give them special attention to convince them to quit, but a switch flips as soon as they do. The attitude turns to one of encouragement for how far they made.
It becomes clear their cadre are playing a role: one that’s in indirect conflict with what they actually want. It’s that conflict that inspired Phil to film The Standard. Whoever is out in front is winning, and the cadre capitalizes on that to make you feel like you don’t belong. But the real standard is not quitting.
You can be the weakest link or lowest common denominator, but you might be the strongest in the next iteration. So it becomes getting to that next thing by redefining your role as needed and supporting those working around you. Recognizing when you’re the weakest is invaluable and talking it out with who you’re working with is the key to taking that next step forward.
Filming The Book Keepers (18:20)
Phil’s recent documentary, The Book Keepers, is filmed from Phil’s perspective. It follows his dad as he travels the country to promote Phil’s mom, Carol Wall’s, first book after her death. She received a book contract in 2010 for her memoir, Mr. Owita’s Guide to Gardening, about her experience with breast cancer and how that coincided with a friendship she developed with a Kenyan gardener.
The book was released in 2014, but her cancer had returned during the final months of editing. She died in December of 2014, just one week before her book was named in the Top 10 of the Year.
Due to her illness, Random House canceled many promotional events and interviews, and she could never properly advocate for her story. So, Phil’s dad began attending events on her behalf after her death.
For Phil and his family, it was a journey of loss many others could relate to, and The Book Keepers grew out of the need to capture that power of emotion. Storytelling was a way for not just Phil to heal but his family and his audience as well. The film premiered at the Austin Film Festival in August 2020 and won both the Jury Prize and Audience Award for Best Documentary Feature.
Welcome to the Athletics of Business, a podcast about how the traits and behaviors of elite athletes and remarkable business leaders frequently intersect. The real stories and hard lessons to help you level up your leadership and performance. Now, your host, Ed Molitor.
Welcome back to another episode of the Athletics of Business podcast. I am your host and CEO of the Molotor Group, Ed Molotor. And today I am bringing you part two of my conversation with award winning filmmaker Phil Wall. And if you've ever wanted to listen to someone who absolutely followed their purpose and their passion and how it is turning out for them and what their journey is like, this episode and the previous episode doesn't get much better. And today, I highly recommend, I urge you to have a pen and paper ready as we talk about two of his documentaries and take a deep dive into so many takeaways. And they're very relevant to what we've been going through, what we are going through, and how we move forward at the highest level.
The first documentary we jump into is the Standard, which is about an endurance challenge like none other. Okay. It's a $48 challenge that it's an opportunity for elite athletes to test their limits, and not just their physical limits, but their mental limits as well. Inside of this, I mean, we talk about mastering the chaos and enduring the unknown and how it comes down to this. It's about winning or quitting. And one of the things we jump into that's so relevant to everything we do on a D basis is this, that in times of stress, you fall back on what you practice the most. It's a great conversation wrapped around preparation.
And something that I will absolutely tie into my keynotes as well as my work with my clients is don't disrespect the people who are here working with your performance, your effort, whatever it may be. But there's so much cool stuff there in the Standard. And then the second documentary we really take a deep dive into is very moving. I was fortunate enough to have Philippines me access to a sneak preview of it and it's called the Bookkeepers. And we'll have links for all of this on the show. Notes, obviously. And it's called the Bookkeepers. And there's a documentary about his dad as he travels the country promoting his mother's book after her death. And it's from Phil's vantage point.
And Phil travels with his father and the evolution of what he talks about, how he talks about it and what the results are pretty powerful. And there's some things that really help us Gain and keep perspective on what is going on in our worlds right now. So enjoy this, and I urge you, get a pen and paper. There are so many great takeaways. I can only imagine how much you have taken away from the films you've done, because I have to segue into what brought me to Phil Wall. Okay. And I explained it in the introduction, right? And it was a former podcast guest, a former client, a friend of mine said, you've got to watch the Standard. You will absolutely love it. I said, what in God's name is the Standard? It was out of the blue.
And so I woke up early one Saturday morning and opened up my laptop and I put it on and I was absolutely mesmerized. And I'm not saying this because you're sitting in front of me and obviously, you know, this is true because I reached out to you about that, you know, and when I looked up, I looked you up, then I saw the other work you've done. I'm like, all right, I have to have Phil Waller podcast. I have to get to know this guy. There's so much there. But the Standard, I mean, just tell us about that. Tell us about doing that documentary. What it's about what you experienced and the things that you took away from it. Yeah.
So the Standard is. It's a feature documentary, 90 minutes. It's about a 48 hour endurance challenge that is hosted by special Forces combat veterans. Anyone can show up. Very few people finish. And I had known about the event. It's put on by a company called goruck. And that company, they make military grade bags, they make apparel. And they started running these events. I mean, you know, I think I forget what year they started up, but it was maybe like around 2007, something like that. But they came up with these events to test their bags because the bags go to combat. And so the founder of the company wanted to say, like, all right, let's figure out how to mimic combat scenarios and let's figure out how to break these bags.
What they found were, you know, they started doing these overnight challenges that were 12 hours. And what they found were people would show up. People really love doing it.
People like you. Yeah.
So I ended up. And then we'll get back to this film. I ended up doing a Goruck challenge because a friend had introduced me to them back in 2011 or 13 or something like that. And. And I did some marketing work for them, like their early event videos to market their company. And the founder, Jason, basically said to me, like, okay, Phil, Everybody here who works for us is a special forces combat veteran or has done one of these challenges. So let's look at the calendar. When are you doing it? So I did one of their 12 hour overnight challenges, which those, like 98% of people finished because it's about team building. It was the most physically rigorous thing I've ever done. You get smoked in the first two hours.
And the idea of that is everybody in the group of 30 people gets put kind of on the same level. And there's a special forces combat vet who is organizing the events. And you're just sort of turning yourself over to them. You got the rucksack, weighted rucksack on your back. And went through Philadelphia that night.
Wait, first of all, hold on, slow down. You're not giving yourself enough credit. What time of the year was it? A and B, do tell about doing pushups in the river that time of year.
Yeah, it was February. I had my cousin with me and a few other friends. And then it was like, are they.
Still talking to you?
Yeah. And then like 30 other people.
We.
In the first 20 minutes, the cadre had us bear crawl, like 100 yards down to the Schuylkill river in Philadelphia. And were in the water. It was 34 degrees outside. We were in water. Push ups, sit ups, flutter kicks. Like, the guy knew the amount of time that we would be safe in that water, and he also knew that were about to be moving for like the next 11 hours and 40 minutes, whatever it was.
So did you find comfort in the fact he was looking at his watch? He was not going to let hypothermia set in. I mean, for God's sake.
I mean, I sort of.
Back in my.
Yeah, in the back of my mind, I knew that. And he was definitely. I don't remember exactly. You know, it was a shock to the system, but he was definitely telling us that we would be okay, you know, and that we just needed to keep moving and, you know, everybody was fine. And everybody in our group finished, you know, the next day. We were, we. It was such a team building experience. And personally, it was very transformative because you're constantly faced with, you know, we would have these group activities where we would have to carry. We'd find a log by the river and we'd have to carry it a mile and a half or two miles, and we would pick a navigator and a team leader and all this stuff. And let's say there's 30 of us.
Well, only 15 or 12 can fit under the log and it's about all you can handle, right? So, so you had to, we had to like rotate. And so you're constantly faced with being rotated out and watching your teammate start to struggle and crumble and have to answer that question, am I going to help or am I going to take my break? That was something that was, it's. That's really stuck with me. Fast forward a few years. Goruck is doing these. They've amped up their game a little bit because people love these events and people kept asking for more and more. And so Goruck came up with this 48 hour challenge that is a condensed version of the special Forces assessment and selection.
And they take all of the elements of that and program it into this 48 hour period and invite anyone to show up who feels that they are ready to take this on. And the main difference between this, it's called Goruck selection. The main difference between the selection and the challenge that I did and the other events that they do is that they encourage you to quit. And that's the real test. Whereas in the challenge, they don't let you quit because they know you can do it and they're trying to encourage you and talk you through it when you do want to quit. But for the Goruck selection, they turn it on to another level. People who show up, that's what they signed up for, right? They signed up to be pushed to their absolute physical limit and mental limit.
Having done the Goruk challenge, having been around people, the Goruck guys like I knew going into this selection that we ended up filming, it was important to capture whatever happened in a way that allows intimacy for the audience, but doesn't interfere at all with the process that's going to unfold. Because it's really important for the people doing it, the participants, it's really important for them. It's a special moment that some of them have trained like a year for and for the cadre to describe it to. I guess the cadre, for lack of a better word, are essentially drill sergeants who are running the event and telling the participants what is next, what the next iteration is, whether it's, you know, it's all physically taxing, it's. It's a combination of all different mental and physical challenges that are unpredictable and unknown to the participants.
You just sort of give yourself over.
And that's the big thing, right? It's like the unknown of what's coming next. Right. I love how they would build someone up and they're just completely setting them up, right. They're setting them up to break them down or they're breaking someone down to force them to build themselves up. But what was really cool about this, and we'll put the link, we'll put all the information in the show notes. I cannot recommend this enough, but what was really cool about this, the way you filmed it was almost like going back to being a coach's son for you in the locker room because you would show them absolutely blasting the guy and here he would go off into the woods to pick up another X amount of pound weight and as soon as he was out of their sight, they just have a normal conversation.
They would just revert back actually to assessing the situation of what was going on. There's that poor guy, God knows what's going through his head, his mind and his body. And here they are sipping their coffee, just having a conversation. What were some of the takeaways from that? I mean, it was mind blowing, the things. And now again, these are folks that signed up for it, they volunteered for it, just to see what they're capable of.
There's a conflict happening there, like for. And this is what made me think it could be a film for the cadre who are running the event. They want to have an impact on people that's positive. They want to build better communities. They want this event to change people's lives whether or not they finished or quit. But the agreement, if you will, between the participants and the cadre is essentially, I'm going to train and show up and I'm going to do what you say and you are going to tell me to quit nonstop. And the conflict there is essentially these cadre want more than anything to see people finish, but they have to play this role of spending the whole 48 hours. Absolutely. Just trying to trigger, I think one of the cadre says, you know, trying to trigger that gremlin in your mind.
Yes.
That's telling you, I can't do this, I shouldn't be here. And if you'll notice, like in the film, the cadre, again, it's never about the person, it's about the performance. And so it's just like you are not up to standard. Everybody else is way ahead of you. You know, when it's a group of people, right, they essentially pick on the weakest ones, people who are behind. It's like, okay, that's it, that's you. You're going to get special attention now and then you'll see a person quit and the switch flips off. And they say, oh my God, man, that was incredible what you just did. We're so proud of you. Thank you so much. Dude, who are you? What do you do for.
Absolutely.
You know, and it's just, it's so clear that they're playing a role and that role is actually in conflict with what they want most in their heart, which is to connect, right? And in some ways it's a beautiful thing. It was really important to me to make the film in a way that was really, that's clear because I think like, you know, I've been around coaching, I played basketball, I've worked all these basketball camps. I've been around it and I've seen some guys, some people who will just, you know, MF people for no reason. And it's more about just putting on a show for whoever's in the gym or for the other players. And you end up like putting people down.
Right? And it's about them. Yeah.
And in this here are the people who are the most elite of them all who understand, in addition to being able to deliver that type of punishment, understand the greater purpose of it and are doing it for a greater purpose and are managing that line. They're walking up to it and they're not crossing it because they actually do care about the people.
Well, then you show that, right? You show that beginning where one of the gentlemen talks about like, this is the one thing in life, like this, the one event that actually brings me to tears at the end when the people do finish and there's some great stuff I want to share here. And they talk about commitment, sacrifice and dedication, but they almost serve as what life does to you, the way they do things, right? Because if they take it to your absolute lowest point. So you have to figure out what your why is, right? What your purpose is. But some of the stuff they said in here, I'm going to say it a little calmer than they do, but master the chaos and endure the unknown. One that really got me. Trample the weak, hurdle the debt. But you think about it, right?
You think about it in the sense of the business world, your career, of just things you're competing for in general, you know, trample the weak hurdle of dead, but dominate the man in front of you, but win or quit. And here's one that I absolutely love. When you think of it, you put it in the team sense because they talk about how high performing teams are made up of individuals who are selfless and committed to the cause. And here's the one that really got me. When you start talking about that, don't disrespect the people who are here working, you know, by your performance, not you personally, like you said, but don't let your performance disrespect the people here that are putting in the work.
And I don't want to give everything away, but when the one gentleman's laying on the bank, right, Chilling out, sipping on his water, and the one guy's in the water just dying, I mean, he's dying. He goes, that's what's winning. Winning looks like, right? I mean, that's it. It's plain and simple. And they talk about winning over and over. And they talk about when you fail to meet the standard, that's losing. And I just. I just think that's. So you captured so much in there.
Yeah, I think, you know, one of the things about when so much of that you said is about winning, right? Like winning and losing. And it's important to note that is sort of hard to define. And it's. And it's an ever changing standard in the film, in the story that we're covering in the. In the film, because whoever is in front is the person winning. And it doesn't really matter what the task is. The person who's doing it the best is winning. And I think that they're really using it as. Because the real standard is not quitting. And so they're using that sort of winning and losing thing to make you feel like you don't belong, to suggest to you that you don't belong.
Right.
Everybody else is doing this better than you. What are you doing here? Whereas in my work, I guess, or perhaps in business, in your business, you can be the weakest link, the lowest common denominator, but in the next iteration, you might be the strongest of your team. Right, Right. And it's about getting there. It's about getting to that point, to that next thing. Like, okay, yeah, this is out of my skill set. This isn't my role. I need to support. I need to make sure that I'm respecting the other people who are working and figure out how do I perform here in this task? And then when we get to the next one, who knows what that's going to be? But maybe it's something I'm good at. And so I think recognizing that.
That you're kind of that weakest link or lowest common denominator is something that's invaluable and it's. And being able to talk about that with clients, for example. I mean, I have clients who will ask me to do particular things, and I'll be like, okay, you want to have that animated graphic thing? I don't know how to do that, let me just say, first of all. But, I mean, I'll find a way. We'll do this together. But I'm not going to act like I know how to do that. And then we're in a situation where, like, in the Standard, I'm just kind of crawling around the mud while Everybody else is 20ft ahead of me, and I'm holding things up. Right.
And it's just about taking that next step forward.
Yeah.
Just get to that. Get to. Like you said, just get to that next thing. Take that next step forward. And, I mean, I think it's. So. It's a metaphor for what we're going through right now, or what we've been going through the last 18, 19 months. Right. Just the willingness and the ability to endure things that we don't have any control over. And just to. To take the next step forward and just to keep digging in. Yeah.
Take the step that's right in front of you. That is the standard.
Right.
Is to keep moving, to never quit. And I guess when they're talking about, you know, mastering the chaos and all of that stuff, I mean, you fall back on in times of stress, you fall back on what you practice the most. And so you have to have trained hard enough for this event, for the Gorecus selection, you have to have trained hard enough physically that when you are mentally and physically so gassed and so at your limit, that your lowest point of performance is still putting one foot in front of the other instead of panicking and thinking about the warm fire and coffee that you can go get if you just stand up and quit.
Well, and, you know, you've been there before. If you're prepared, you know you've been there before. Right. If you. If you put yourself in situations that were equal or greater adversity than what you're currently going through, you're good. You've got this. Now I want to segue to the latest documentary because it's an absolutely amazing story. I stayed up in Full Disclosure quite late last night watching it, rewinding it, watching it, and there's so much to it. Okay. And it's titled the Bookkeepers, and I'd love for you to walk us through just the story behind the story, because it really is great work.
The Bookkeepers is. It's a feature documentary. It's filmed from my perspective, and it follows my dad as he travels the country promoting my mom's first book after her death. So we talked about her being a writer early in the conversation. And she got her first book contract around 2010. And the book is called Mr. Oweda's Guide to Gardening. And it's a memoir that's about her experience with breast cancer and how that coincided with a friendship she developed with a Kenyan gardener. And they kind of ended up becoming these spiritual guides for each other.
Right.
And our families got intertwined, and it's a story that is about embracing affliction and living Plan B. The book came out in 2014, and her cancer had returned during basically the final months of the edit of the book. And she. It was kind of the last thing that she was able to do. She finished the book in the final window of time where she was capable of doing that. And so she had, unfortunately, like, a long illness that she eventually died from, and she kind of lost her mental faculties over a course of however many months. Maybe it was like six or seven. And she died in December of 2014, one week before her book was named top 10 of the year by USA Today and AARP. So sort of the.
What happened was a lot of marketing opportunities, A lot of the events and interviews and stuff that Penguin Random House had set up got canceled. And she never got to speak to advocate for her book, which is kind of, you know, it's like. It's an injustice for. For me, something that needs to be righted. But a few of them invited my dad to speak, and so he started traveling to. To these places and talking to people, ostensibly about my mom's book. But what he ended up doing was talking about her and their relationship and meeting her and their. His love story and what he was going through and sharing his loss and grief. And it became this really powerful exchange. You know, I didn't set out to make this documentary, especially the documentary as it exists today.
I had been capturing some material to help my mom get ready to publish her book. You know, I did some interviews with her to put on Facebook and things like that, when the time came to promote her book and to promote her as a speaker, and it just didn't happen. My brother and my sister and I would help my dad at some of these events, and I went to a few of them and was really struck by what happened after, which was that strangers would walk up to me, give me a hug, they would tell me their story. They would tell me I lost my mom. I lost my sister, my brother. They would share a loss with me.
And it totally floored me because I didn't realize how much I needed to hear that and how much that helped me in those moments, you know, so proximal to when my mom had died. So I started thinking, well, this is really powerful, what's happening here. Can I capture what this story. Can I tell this story in a way, in a film that will encourage this type of exchange from people who watch it? And that was the impetus for making what is now the bookkeepers, you know, and that start. That process started in 2015, and the film premiered at the Austin Film Festival and in 2020, and it won the jury prize and the audience award for. For best documentary feature.
So I cannot tell you, like, how much that has meant to me, the process of making the film, but also just like, I've had so many meaningful conversations with people, and that's really all you can hope for.
Right. What about the car rides with your dad? Yeah.
Much of the film is in the car. On one of the trips, we go from Virginia to Montana, and then back to Virginia, like through Georgia, and then we take a few other trips to Florida. We go to Texas. That was, again, it's like going back to the basketball. Looking back on it's incredible to have that time together. I think initially, like, I was worried about my dad. He's going out to these places he'd never been before. He's going to be talking about my mom constantly. You know, I didn't really know what impact that would have on him, and I was worried about, you know, how he was dealing with things and didn't know what was going to happen in the car.
And, of course, I decided that I'm going to be trying to capture this film, you know, in some ways, like, he had the book as this distraction, and I had the film as this distraction.
Right.
To. I felt compelled to do something. You know, my mom, one of our final conversations, she said, you take care of our book, you know, and I wish that perhaps she could have been more specific.
And that comes up, and we won't. We won't ruin it, but that comes up. And your sister really. I thought what she said was really profound. Right. I mean, it was like. I think there's a deeper meaning to that, and it is very true, because she was a little bit vague in what she meant. Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I mean, I think there's. There's a lot of ways to look at it, and that's kind of What I think the film is, you know, I think it's important to leave things kind of open to interpretation because people need to have their own discovery. Those are the films I like where I feel like I found something.
And that's how I felt, like I was figuring something out as I went along before you guys told us the answer. Right. Like, especially when your sister said that. And then I. I watched the conversations you had after that. But going back to what you said, how you're worried about your dad. And it's interesting because he brings it up in one of the car rides where he talks about he's worried about himself. And he just kept talking, and it was like, it was so cool to see him work through whatever thought it was that wasn't making sense. But then it did make sense. But then it didn't make sense, and he was okay with it.
Yeah. I mean, and that's going back to playing for him. That's how he did it. Right. He read all these different things, and then he walked up to us at practice and said, this person says this. This person says this. This is what we should do, you know, this is how we should deal with this. And that's how he copes, for lack of a better word. Right. The way that I cope is kind of turning on, like, approaching something from. With my intellect, you know, trying to explain it in this other way and doing it through the film. In some ways, yeah. I mean, those conversations in the car, it's like. It's not like I expected. I didn't know what to expect. I didn't really know what to capture. I didn't know what the film was about, and I found it in the edit.
The edit is what made me decide what's important.
And how did your dad feel about that? Besides the fact that his son is brilliant? Okay, besides that, yeah.
Well, I think if you've watched him now for 90 minutes, you know that he would say that my mom is brilliant, and he would say the same thing. He 100% is behind whatever she wrote or did. And me too, you know, he treated it basically the same way he treated the book, which is like, this is special. And I don't know how to do what you do. And I trust you. It was interesting. Like, watch going through a few drafts of the film or going through making different scenes to understand how I was viewing my dad and where I needed to basically, like, get back in my lane, so to speak. At some point, I ended the film with a closing slate that says, like, dad's book tour goes 225 events in 30 different states. He's traveled over a hundred thousand miles.
And he says he'll continue for as long as it takes. Well, that's like editorializing in a way. It's like, get off the guy's back. Like, if he can do whatever he wants to do, it's up to me to take something away from it, to learn something from it for myself. It's not for me to, like, evaluate him or judge what he's doing or why he's doing it or what his motivation is. It's perhaps for something to explore and discover. And so making the film really made me realize the times when I was trying to get a hold of him, try to explain or correct what I felt was happening, you know?
And that brings a question in my mind. As you were sitting there going through all the editing and you're, you know, rewatching the footage that you shot, did all of a sudden, like, you realize something that you were, you know, it's the old things begin to change when I change the way I looked at them. All of a sudden you realize that maybe in the midst of the conversation, you missed something, and you picked it up during the editorial about your dad or about yourself or about the journey that you were on.
Yeah, I mean, things change their meaning.
Right.
One of the things about the film is it's very repetitive. I have him using the same words over and over because he's giving a talk at all of these places, so he's kind of on a script. When were just talking about, what are your strengths and weaknesses? At some point, I sat down with this film and thought, okay, what does this content yield that is unique. We have all of these things. I want this film to sort of live in the grief canon. I want it to have an impact on people, a positive impact. But what about this story is unique? Everybody loses someone. And there's plenty of books about it. There's plenty of films that deal with it. Where does this one work? Where does it fit? What does it add?
And so I realized, like, okay, I think I want to use the fact that it's repetitive, that he's using the same words over and over. And you start one place at the beginning of the film, and you end in this totally different place. The universe has changed. You end, you know, with a guy in an empty room. You close with a guy in a crowded room. And, you know, in the beginning, no one loves him. And in the end, he's surrounded by people who love him and know him. Right.
And so.
But you get there and you feel totally differently about it. But the words in the closing of the film are the same as the words in the beginning of the film and in the middle of the film, but they've changed meaning.
Absolutely. Yeah.
And we've.
We.
You know, me as the filmmaker, you as the audience. We are the ones who are putting the meaning on those words. And he's had his discovery, I've had mine. Hopefully you're having yours. Yeah, it's in that edit where I'm going back and realizing that basically. I mean, shoot, I can't believe I'm saying this. I didn't realize this. That he had what was inside him the whole time. Right, right. That's what Coach says.
Absolutely.
It's inside you. Right. He had it inside him the whole time, and he fell back on his practice, and storytelling got him through. Through is not the word. But storytelling helped him heal, you know, and it helped him find what's inside him and helped me find what's inside me and what's important and what should endure. So, yeah, it's like realizing what the film was about or what I wanted it to be about made me reevaluate all those conversations. It went from the more nostalgic conversations to about my mom and dad. At first, when I wanted to make. To tell you about this story, I wanted to tell you all about, like, the painful months of how she died. But as time passed, I focused less and less on that. It became less. It's still. The voice is there, but it's not the loudest voice.
Right. And you honored it. You honor it from start to finish. And that was always really cool about it. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you.
So it's really. It's a film that has changed. It changed me. I can't imagine going through this in any other way. You know, I can't imagine how I'd feel about my mom dying without this project that has made me confront it and put everything on the table so many days and only, you know, leave what's important and what should endure.
And if you think about it's no different than Coach Eric, what he did. I mean, he was confronting his life every single day, but he was impacting you through things. He realized. Right. As your dad did as a coach. Now here you are impacting so many others. I mean, I'm going to tell you, like, I would love. As your dad was talking, watching the faces when he could see him in the room or Watching the body language from behind. There's the one scene where I was ready to smack the dude sitting in front when your dad was talking, right? But then by the end of it, he was like, he was all in. I mean, he was locked in. He was laughing, he was crying. He, you know, he's looking at other people.
I'm like, yeah, see, but at first I was like, this guy. I mean, first of all, you don't sit in the front of the room, you know, front and center, stuff in your face when this man is talking about this powerful stuff.
But he came, right?
That's what's so awesome about. I mean, that the folks that you're impacting and, you know, and it's all in your own journey. And before we wrap up with the last question, because it's an important question, where can our listener find out more about Phil Wall? Where can you find out more about each of the documentaries on social media out there on the Internet? Go ahead and fill them in.
My website is Phil Wall Film. The Standard is available in the US On Hulu. You can rent it basically wherever you rent and buy films. The Bookkeepers is currently on its film festival tour. We got a few festivals coming up here, and you can go to the website, it's Bookkeepers Movie. And you can kind of track what our schedule is, but also you can write in if you got a group of people who. Who want to have a screening or host a screening. You know, we're going to be starting that up in early 2022, and we're planning on distribution. We're talking to distributors right now. But if you got a group, you know, visit the website, get in touch, we'll see if we can get. Schedule an event in your town. The passing game is the work of my heart right now.
I am editing that right now. It is. It's another project that, you know, I started it in 2008 and here we are, and I'm still figuring out what it means, and I'm enjoying every second of it. That's one. You know, you got to sign up on the website just to join the newsletter. It's going to be hidden film festivals here in the near future. And I'm excited to share that story because, again, I can't wait to see it. You know, I just want to give you the experience of having known Fletcher Eric. I want you to, you know, expand this family.
Right, this.
Yeah, I talk to people all the time. They figure out, you know, Fletcher Eric. It's like, let's. Let's sit down and talk for a while and tell some stories, you know?
Right.
So I want to expand that family and bring people in on the secret.
Well, and you mentioned something to me, and I'm going to build off what you just said, because I think it's. It's very appropriate. You said something to me like the meaning of the films change and what you're doing with the films have changed as you work on them. And we just talked about with the bookkeepers, how certain things showed up differently as it evolved through the process. How about with Coach Eric? Were there things. As you go back and watch these interviews and watch all the footage that you have and all the things that you shot, all of a sudden, like, just every experience you had becomes even richer and more valuable? Has that happened?
Yeah, it's happening. I think when I first started out the film, I thought, I'm going to just. I'm going to follow a group of kids who go to Fork Union. Because I related to the kids, and I thought, I'll tell basically my something that mimics my story. As I started making it, I realized, you know, this is a real missed opportunity. If I want to sit down and talk to someone for 90 minutes about something, I want to talk to them about Fletcher Ehret, how he's made this impact. That's what we need to explore. So in terms of what I'm learning right now about the passing game, it's more like realizing what's important about his story and not trying to tell my own or not trying to right wrongs that I see. It's not about putting Fletcher Ehret in the hall of Fame.
That would be amazing. But it would be amazing because that's the story that we should all value. It would be amazing because it would be good for us to be telling that story. But what is really important is not making sure that he's a household name. What's really important is that he continues to have impact on anyone who crosses his path. And you can do that through film. And the film should be about the things that you experience and learn. Knowing Coach Eric, he has a profound impact on people. And he is incredibly engaging and funny. The guy, he was amazing, and he sticks with me, and I think of him all the time.
That's awesome. Well, Phil, I appreciate you, and I appreciate the work you're doing and taking time out of it to join us here today. And we'll have all the links, we'll have everything in the show, notes on the website, and I mean, thanks again and here's what we have to do. We have to commit to this right when the passing game comes out and the film festivals start. A I'm going to be at one of those film festivals. But baby, we need to get you back on and talk about all the success that it's happened.
Oh, that'd be fantastic. And thanks so much. And this felt like a lot to cover, and I appreciate you doing it. And I'll definitely look forward to doing it again and staying in touch. And I love the podcast, so thank you.
Awesome. Thanks, Phil. Appreciate you.
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