Empowering Your Leaders to Solve Problems and Help People, with Ron Alvesteffer

Welcome to the Athletics of Business, a podcast about how the traits and behaviors.

Of elite athletes and remarkable business leaders frequently intersect. The real stories and hard lessons to help you level up your leadership and performance.

Now your host, Ed Molitor. Welcome back to another episode of the Athletics of Business podcast. I am your host and CEO of the Molotor Group, Ed Molotor. And we have another phenomenal encore interview today with Ron alvestaffer, President and CEO of Service Express. Ron previously joined us on episode number 22 and I know we've picked up a ton of new listeners since episode 22. So if you have not listened to that episode, to that conversation, I highly recommend you go back and give it a listen. There is so much value there, just an incredible time that Ron and I had together. I honestly I never thought we could touch that conversation in terms of how this one turned out. And it is even better now.

Speaking of new listeners, I want to talk a little bit about Ron before I talk about what we discuss in this conversation. As you may not be familiar with Ron and Ron, as I mentioned, president and CEO of Service Express and during his tenure he has helped Service Express define its market and create a unique performance driven culture for employees. Let me say that again. Performance driven culture for employees. Service expresses core value, which is this. To work with our employees to help them achieve their personal, professional and financial goals, which he talks a lot about in episode number 22. Creates opportunities for employee achievement and has led to outstanding individual and team performances resulting individual and company success.

As a result, Service Express has been named one of the best and brightest companies to work for in the nation five years in a row. Also has been named to the 8,5000 list of fastest growing private companies in America, 10 in the past 11 years, as well as one of the top 25 best small companies by Forbes magazine. Now here's another really cool fact. Under Ron's leadership, Service Express has averaged double digit revenue growth year over year and has expanded the geographic footprint nationally. So what are we going to talk about? All sorts of stuff and I'm going to try not to give away the whole interview and honestly, so I can stop talking, get out of the way and let you listen to all the great stuff that Ron has to say.

But we jump right into things and we talk about how service expresses BHAG, okay of $500 million in revenue, makes them self assess constantly and everything that they are doing. And I love this how the bhag, how the big hairy audacious goal is not about the number, it's not about the $500 million. Okay. Rather, it's about the opportunities the number presents. Then we'll talk about how Service Express develops their bench and why it is so important and significant in their growth. Every Monday morning there is a one hour executive huddle. And in that huddle they share leadership lessons, best practices and priorities for the week. And that really has helped Service Express along the way. And then Ron's going to talk about why he stresses to his leaders to get away from their laptops and get around their people to coach, teach and mentor.

Don't you love that they'll get away from your laptops and get around their people to coach, teach and mentor. And here's one that I really enjoyed listening to him talk about was how the way Dean Smith did things with the Carolina Way and John Wooden did things at UCLA ties into the service expressway and mission. And what Dean Smith focused on and John Wooden focused on, it wasn't on winning games. The focus was on playing the games the right way and executing the fundamentals. Then winning was a byproduct. We'll also talk about how getting to know his people helps him decipher between a bad month and a trend and what action he takes based on what he figures out. And that's really key to putting your people in the best position possible to be successful.

And you'll hear Ron mention time and again why he believes it comes down to solving problems and helping people. And then we'll jump into vulnerability and why it is so key in the moment he finally bought into the value of asking for help and how his mentor, the founder, worked with him on that. And one of the things he came to realize was how you are actually robbing your people of the opportunity for them to grow and to show you they can help solve the problem when you keep the problem all to yourself as a leader, even though you might be thinking that you're doing them a favor because you are protecting them.

And finally, he shares a wonderful Juwan Howard leadership story as told to him by a manager of the Michigan basketball team who was actually on the receiving end of that lesson. Okay, that's enough from me. Now let's jump into this conversation with Ron elvistacker, president and CEO of Service Express. And I know you'll enjoy listening to this as much as I did recording it. Ron, thank you so much for joining us again today on the Athletics of Business podcast for your encore interview.

Yeah, it's great to be back and great to connect with you again. Thanks for having me.

Well, here we are. I want to know what's. What great things have happened since episode 22 and what has you so excited about Service Express as you step into 2020?

Yeah, gosh, a lot has happened actually, with another strong year. We just closed a deal to have a new financial sponsor. And so were owned by private equity, a company called Pamlico Capital out of Charlotte, who was a fantastic partner for us the past four and a half years. And we just closed the deal to now go to a new financial sponsor, Harvest Partners, which is based out of New York City. And we closed that deal just before Thanksgiving. So we are excited to be with our new sponsor, excited to look at accelerating our growth and driving towards that. This is all part of the plan of driving towards that $500 million BHAG in 2025.

So let's talk about the BHAG and let's talk about your previous BHAG and the remarkable journey you had to really reaching that goal a year early, Correct?

Yeah, we did. We, you know, when I took over as president in 2002, were about $7 million in revenue and we had read and literally studied Jim Collins books. Good to Great, Built to Last. And he talks about setting a bhag, a big hairy, audacious goal. And it was kind of fun because they use that term a lot during our process to select our new sponsor. And some of the firms had not heard of that. And so it was kind of fun to educate them on that. And we decided to set a BHAG. This was 2002 of $100 million in revenue by 2020. And the reason we do that, and it's what's so powerful about it. It's not just about the money, right? People can lose sight and say, well, it's just, why do you want to just become a bigger company?

It really has nothing to do with becoming a bigger company. It was, we're going to be a growing company and we need to be thinking in the future and doing what we do today. Will that continue to work at 100 million or at some point in line, will we need to upgrade a process or a system or a strategy? And I think so many companies and leaders don't think enough ahead in the future. And so then they get caught. All of a sudden this doesn't work anymore. Versus having a BHAG makes us self assess constantly and everything that we're doing. And if we had a process or a strategy and we said this will get us to 50 million, I would say along the line, I was like, okay, that's great. So we'll be 50 million in 2013.

So you have until now and then to figure out how to scale that forward. Right. We're always looking for ahead in order to scale and grow. And by doing all that, ultimately what you're serving is your people because you're creating opportunities for people. Not only current employees, future employees you're going to hire and those people that are going to solve that problem of whatever's not scaling to 100 million. There's opportunity in solving those problems and.

That'S huge for your leaders as well. Right. Because it's more opportunities for them to impact the people that they're leading. Can you talk about some of the different things that have happened because of your consistent growth?

Yeah, I mean, gosh, there are positions that come available every year that, you know, we didn't necessarily plan for or there'll be positions that come available next year, 2021 that I don't even know about yet. Right. And so that's the biggest thing that drives leaders here, is creating those opportunities for their teams. And in watching them grow and achieve those, it goes back to our core value that you and I talked about to help our people achieve their personal, professional and financial goals. And nothing gives us more energy or juice as leaders. As watching our teams achieve those things and knowing they did that through Service.

Express, I'll never forget when you, when we first talked about that on episode 22, that got me going a little bit like how much you serve your people and to reach not just their professional goals, but their personal goals. I've got to think that absolutely attracts, not only attracts the top talent, but it helps you retain the top talent that you have there at Service Express.

Yeah, I think it absolutely does. And I think that's shown up in our story and that is really what drives our growth. So again, when you talk about putting a number out there, it's not about the number, it's about the opportunities that number represents. And I think the other thing it does is it really helps draw, I'll say, the right people for Service Express to us. Right. So there are people out there, very successful, do well, who are more mission focused on their career or on a certain number or carving out their path. And some companies are built around that works for them, you know, fantastic. What we try to really position ourselves is we want people who want to be part of something bigger than themselves, who want to be more mission oriented.

Around the team and around the goals that we all have and help, and they get juice from that. Right. And so when you hear our story so many times, it resonates with people. And in the recruiting process, they'll say, one, I didn't know I was looking. I didn't know. Two, I didn't know I was unhappy where I'm at. I've had people tell me, even if I don't get this opportunity at Service Express, I've got to go find a different opportunity because I've seen what could be available out there. Right? And so you get people who really are drawn to the value and the mission that we're trying to do. Conversely, we've gotten people that just say, that's just not for me. I'm just not wired that way.

And what I talk to our leaders about and our people and even people like that I've had conversation with is, it doesn't mean we're right and you're wrong. There's no good or bad. It just means we're different. And it just means we're not going to be a good fit for you. And that's okay. And better to find that out now than later down the road. So I try not to be holier than thou, or there's only one way to do it. I just say, this is our way, this works for us, and we're going to continue to go this way. And if it works for you, then that's great. Let's talk and see if there's an.

Opportunity there, you know, and that leads me to a question that just popped in my head. I have some great friends in college coaching, business, in the industry, and sometimes one of your strengths as a head coach can also be your Achilles heel. In other words, if you have the ability to develop an assistant coach, if you have the ability to develop a great assistant coach, he's, you know, there's going to be some turnover because they're going to get hired away from you. Because people, you know, when a great example is Loyola basketball, you know, Porter's had a number of great assistants go on to get head jobs or to go to some of, you know, the power five schools, if you will.

So when someone like that, and I'm thinking of someone that I know about with Service Express, when someone likes that, just cannot turn down another offer. And they love, they live and breathe Service Express, the culture of what you stand for and your core values, but yet they feel the pull and the need to step away. How do you handle that? Departure.

Yeah. I mean, ultimately we want what's best for the person. Right. So ultimately, if it's an opportunity they can't turn down, we're going to wish them well, nothing but the best and always be there to support them in any way, especially. And as long as they communicate with us and leave on the right way, there's a right way to do that. Which people have done and who you're referencing did the right way and there's wrong ways to do that. Right. But all done the right way, we wish them well. Now, I will say we do have conversations. Our goal is to create a company. This is part of why we're growing, is that you never feel you have to leave to go somewhere else to achieve a goal, that if you stay here, you can achieve it.

And I do have a strong belief that if you give it time, you're going to get what you want here. That's sort of a different conversation depending where somebody's at in their career. But ultimately, if they just say, I'm at a crossroads, this is best for me, best for my family, and here's where I'm going, then you wish them well and they go forward. But ultimately I'm focused. Here is I tell everybody service Express isn't a stepping stone to get to anywhere else. And I've seen too many people that have gutted through a challenging time or a plateau with the company or in their career or whatever. And when they come through that, the other side of that is glorious. Right.

And so I want to continue to create an environment like you don't feel you have to go anywhere else to get something that you're not getting here. But ultimately, if you do, then all the best.

Let's talk a little bit about that. As we don't want you to leave, we want you to feel like you can develop here and achieve what it is you want to achieve. And I call it developing your bench. Whether it's a high potential leader, a high potential performer, people that might be struggling or not struggling, maybe just not moving along with the clip they think they should be moving along at. I've got to think a culture like yours really strengthens your ability to develop your bench.

It does, yeah. It's a tight labor market, so people are throwing out crazy stuff out there in some cases. And so, you know, that's affected us a little bit too. But when we've had that issue, we have had that bench to replace and it gives an opportunity for kind of next man up next person up to do that. That's a great feeling to be able to do that as well. So I think always developing your people, and I say this to our leaders, is develop everybody. Don't choose too early who you think your only your high poles are. I say develop everybody and see who emerges. Because there are people that they develop at different paces. Right.

And there's people that maybe weren't on our radar a few years ago that all of a sudden now are like crushing it and are doing great things or a position opened up that we wasn't available before. We say that's the perfect seat on the bus for you. Now go there. So I believe in developing everybody and seeing who emerges from that group.

And I love talking about working with our clients on developing, building a culture worth fighting for and protecting that culture. Can you talk a little bit about how in the hiring process and the firing process and the retention process, how you fight for your culture, how you protect this amazing culture that you built at Service Express and how your people do it?

Yeah, yeah. So we have a multi step recruiting process that we use and we, you know, really the beginning part of it is to screen for the skills and aptitude for whatever position you're interviewing for. That's the easy stuff to figure out, you know, as you know. And then it's to spend time with our teams. We do every position, does what we call a ride along where they spend at least a half a day job shadowing. Lets them see what the opportunity is like, lets them talk to frontline employees, kind of hear the real deal. We say ask them anything. Gives us looks at the candidate. Right. So I'm trying to create a process where the candidate and Service Express get multiple looks at each other.

So at the end of the process, and it doesn't take a long time, but we do multiple steps in the process. We're both making a great decision. And I'm not going to hire you after one interview or two interviews. I did that and it with little success. Right. And even in today's tight labor market, people say I got to know fast. We're moving fast. If you want to hire in here after one interview or two, you're not really going about this the right way to making a really informed decision. So we screen, we get multiple people involved. The final interview is three or four people through that interview and we then we have a cool down and we talk through whether they'll be a right fit for us. But we're also looking at how does this fit in the person's career trajectory?

We're looking for people that this is really like a step up and like a next level step. Right, right. So all the reasons I don't want to lose somebody to another company, that's what I'm recruiting for, somebody who wants to take the next level, the next step up here. That's a trick.

Yeah, yeah, that is a trick. So what have been some with this massive growth, Right. Just achieving the BHAG a year earlier, setting this other massive bhag, which is so cool. What have been some of the challenges? Has it been too eager? Has it been complacency? Has it been. No. Has the big challenge been to sustain it as opposed to getting to a certain level? What are some of the big challenges you've faced?

Yeah, I think people are always just recruiting the right people at the speed that you need them and keeping that bar high. And I think as we promote or hire new leaders, teaching them our recruiting philosophy, mistakes we've made along the way and best practices so they don't have to make the same mistakes, a lot of people will end up making the same mistakes that we've learned. And so how do we transfer that knowledge more efficiently and quicker? The other thing along with that, I would just say with a growing company, you've seen the graph. You know what people think success looks like, you know, up into the right. And what it actually looks like is a lot of dips and turns. And I watch as we grow. This is the challenge and part of the fun.

You see different departments kind of hit plateaus, right. So it could be sales One year where you kind of plat in a plateau for us is still double digit growth, but maybe not the rate that we wanted. And you're doing a kind of an update of strategy or an evolution of your strategy. Then it could be service, then it could be operations. We joke in my executive team, we all take turns in that seat of okay, we got a little bit of a challenge here. Our processes aren't scaling, our people, you know, we need to staff up. We got a little tightness, whatever it is, and it kind of rotates around. So that's a natural challenge. But like anything, it's also what makes us stronger.

And it's always a lot more fun looking back after you came through the challenge and all the lessons you learned applied than it is going through it. But it's part of the evolution of a growing company.

So how do you. Because it's so critical to stay out of your silos. Right. With the different departments, different business units, however you want to describe it. But how do you cross functionally? How do you share? How do you learn vicariously from each other's failures as well as successes and help each other elevate each other during those times of struggle?

Yeah. So for us, you know, part of our meeting rhythms is I have a one hour huddle with my executive team that represents the major departments in our company. And so we connect for an hour every Monday morning at 9am, 9 to 10 every Monday morning, that's where you're going to find me. And we'll share leadership lessons, we'll share best practices, we'll talk about priorities for the week that we're working on and then talk through those priorities and who needs to connect on that. And then once a month we'll block out a day for our executive leadership meeting, which is 9am to at 3pm and through that we'll handle reviewing the previous month's performance again, deep diving into certain initiatives. And I usually start off those meetings with a half hour leadership lesson.

And I'll ask for volunteers who's got a leadership lesson and invariably there's one on my team that will be like, I got one. And of course they're always around a mistake, a big lesson learned, like, okay, here's something that was going on, here's some turnover I had in my department, here's what I thought I was hiring for, here's what I actually got and here's what I learned from that. Where we need to go, right? And so we share those leadership lessons across the board and those lessons apply across the board. And there's such great takeaways because it's not theory, it's here's what I just did or went through.

Right? Right. And it's immediately applicable. And you can figure out how it could help you solve a problem or help you turn the corner on something.

So many times people are like, I'm going through that right now, or that helps me right now. So I think our meeting rhythm creates the opportunities for that. And then I carve out the time within that meeting rhythm to focus on that. And you know, I do at the beginning because it's a great, almost like icebreaker way to get everybody warmed up. You know, like you warm up for the game, warm up for an athletic event, like for our executive meeting, like we got to warm up. Like we're, when I'm in there with my team, they know like I'm all in, and I want you all in. So we got to warm up, because for six hours, like, I leave those things, like, after a game, like, exhausted, in a positive way. Right. Because were all in.

And so that's a great way to warm up for a meeting is to share a leadership lesson that somebody learned over the past week or month or what they've been working on.

So that's huge. And it's a great segue into. My next question is, you know, we know today's workforce wants three things, right? They want to know that they're valued. They want to know that the work they are doing is important. And they also want to be coached. They don't want to be told what to do. They want leaders that take the journey alongside them and to coach them. So now you have these executive leadership meetings. How does that translate into when they go and connect with their teams and how they can. You talk about the significance of their ability to connect with their team and to coach them, not just manage them.

Yeah. I think one is the sharing of information, being transparent. So what we talk about in that meeting and where we're at with initiatives, their job is to task, to go out and then in their departmental meetings with their teams, share that information. And making sure information is getting straight through to the front lines. Also making sure information from the front lines is coming all the way back up through to us. That's critically important as we get larger. Like, I used to be on the front lines, and I could just connect with people and know, and I'm removed from that now. So creating those opportunities to get that information flowing back and forth. And I think the other thing is just going back to our culture and reinforcing it constantly, that we're a culture of coaching and mentoring for performance.

And we just talked about this as a team, that sometimes you can get. You can get it backwards. I can get it sideways, too. Where you're starting to drive numbers, right? Numbers. Like, you don't drive numbers. You coach people, you hire, right? You coach, you teach, you mentor. The numbers are a byproduct of doing the right thing. So focus on the process and the people and get away from your laptop. Spend time with people. Coach, teach, mentor. When you come back and you look at your scorecards, all your KPIs, which we track, the numbers will not only be there, they'll blow them out of the way. But when you get that turned around, it becomes a struggle. And your people feel that they know when they're treated like you know, just, I just want your number versus I care about you as a person.

Well, and I love their. The numbers will be a byproduct, right. Of doing things the right way and trusting the process. Can you talk a little like I love, like self awareness to me is such a competitive advantage. And here's what I mean by this, what we're talking about. Okay, so here it is. It's the end of a quarter. Okay. Or you're in a tight spot, you've got to drive those numbers. But staying true to the process and trusting that what you're doing is going to get you those numbers. Can you talk about some of those conversations you might have in situations like that?

You're hitting it right on the head. And that's a challenge that we go through just like anybody else sometimes on that. And I think it's, you know, first being self aware, as you said. When I brought this up to my executive team a couple months ago, you know, the number of us were like, oh yeah, I think I'm in that right now. I'm pushing too hard on numbers and not enough on team and process. Right. And so it's a quick correction though, right? When you're aware of it, you suddenly you can go back and be like, okay, I can. This is an immediate correction. That's the beauty of it. You can refocus with your team pretty quickly on that.

I think as long as knowing, and this is where our KPIs helping us, knowing what our processes are, knowing what your leading indicators are, focusing on doing the right things day in and day out. This is another reason for the bhag because you could be in a spot and we've been here before where, you know, we'll use revenue number, sales numbers, they're a little soft target. But we'll say, are we doing the right things though, strategically, Are we doing the right things? We have the right people. If we are, then we got to trust the process. And what I'll say is if we're off month, a quarter, even if we're off a year, is that going to keep us from hitting 500 million and BE. No, no, it's not going to keep us.

There's not, there's no big damage we're doing now that we can't focus. So having that balance of long term versus short term goals now again, if we're off, if we're not staffed correctly, if we're understaffed or our strategy's off, well, then we need to Correct that process here. But right, you lean on the process, not the people.

Right.

Does that make sense?

Fix the process and not the people I look at. And really it comes down to. And here's what I love about what you're saying. One of the things, many things I love about what you're saying is we talk about trusting the process and leaning on the process and coaching your people in these situations. What I have always found with clients, when you do that, what you're doing is you're equipping them with the mindset, the tools to get that mindset for when this situation comes up again, you're really out of the picture because they're going to be able to do it themselves.

Right, right. So teaching critical thinking.

Right, critical thinking and allows you to focus on other things that are going to move you towards that bhag at an accelerated pace.

Correct. You're exactly right. So, and I mean, it's really. Dean Smith, you're right, wrote the Carolina way. It's the same concepts that he talked about. What John Wooden has talked about them before too, which is not focusing on winning games, focusing on playing the game the right way.

Right.

Doing the fundamentals, doing all the basics. Right. And winning is a byproduct, doing the right things.

Right.

Focus the short term win versus the process.

Well, isn't that funny how that sort of, not sort of. It goes back to directly what your mission is and you know, making that positive impact on your people, helping them reach their personal and professional goals. And you're doing that by the process and you know, you hit those numbers and at the end you're not looking back and reflecting after you hit those numbers, like, okay, we got through that. Now let's really focus on what we said were going to focus on. No, you're consistently doing the things you talk about.

Yeah, we are, but it's always a challenge. You always have to be like in the moment, making sure of that, because especially if numbers are a little soft or, you know, in an area it's easy to focus on. We just got to drive that number when you really have to make sure. You know, on the flip side, there are performance coaching. You talk about everybody wants to be coached. And sometimes you have people that need to be coached and need to be coached a little bit harder or held accountable or not pulling their weight. And we use those coaching sessions to communicate with them. Know exactly. We use our performance measurement system so they know exactly where they stand and give them every resource and opportunity and training available to get on track. Right. And that's been part of our culture.

This isn't a one bad month, one bad quarter, then there's trouble. It's are we doing. If we're doing the right things, we know the success will come, but if we're not doing the right things, then we're going to coach and give you feedback on that and we're going to correct that to the point that if we get to a point that we decide you either can't change it or you won't change it.

Right.

Or you're not at that point, then we got to make a change. Right. Then we'll change it. But there's a lot of steps that go into before you get to that point.

Can you talk a little bit about the performance measurement system and what you look at to gauge that growth?

Yeah. So we have, it's really a three tiered approach. It's our scorecards, which are company, departmental, region and office KPIs that we have. Right. That are filled out monthly. And then we drill down into a monthly system which is a basically a measurable job description called our ROIs, which every person the company has. I think you and I talked about this, I have it too. And say, here's my responsibilities, here's my objectives and here's my indicators and I fill this out monthly. And as an employee, you are sharing that with your leader, reviewing that every month. Right. And so when you talked about people want to know the value they have, the company, the impact, this is how they know it. They know what the departmental goal and the company goals are and they know how their individual goals contribute to that.

And so we're doing monthly feedback loops and then we have our quarterly 5:15, which is your action items and priorities that you're going to focus on. We're working on those right now. For the first quarter, every person will share with their leader and say, here's my focus and my priorities for the next 90 days. And those should all impact ROIs, which all roll up to scorecards. And so that's how people know that's part of a great culture, is you hit exactly on the head that we talk about, which is you know where you stand and you know the value. You bring the culture to company and you're recognized and rewarded for that on a consistent basis, not just when something's wrong.

Right.

I'm talking to you every month. You know exactly where you stand. You never have to guess.

And I think that brings clarity. Right. It brings clarity to your performance indicators, your KPIs, your ROI's. And with the clarity, I think then you could absolutely, at the highest level, be accountable, hold yourself accountable, hold others accountable. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Yeah, because I mean, you're looking at it and this was a best practice. We used to, when we first started doing this, I would sit down with you and I would show your ROIs and review them with you. And then I had a leader. This is the leadership lesson we talked about. A leader in organization said, you know what I do? Instead of me showing them, I have them present it to me. And I'm like, oh, you know, one of those obvious things.

You're like, oh my word, aha moments.

Yeah, that's like awesome. And so we started doing that like it was perfect because now you're telling me, here's where I'm doing really well, here's where I'm not. Here's the why, you know, here's the resources I need, whatever it may be. There's real coaching accountability and feedback and there's a lot of self feedback on that as well. And you know how it is. Your top performers, I mean, are harder on themselves. They'll give you the direct feedback on why they're doing well or why they're know, not doing well in a certain area. And the other thing it does is it helps you balance out and separate a bad month, a bad quarter from a trend. Right. You can say like you've been crushing it, you had a bad quarter.

What's going oftentimes could be a distraction in their personal life, could just be maybe something systematically in the company. Again, needs to grow, needs to scale. Is making it harder than it should be. We've had a number of those, but it opens up all the right conversations when you do it on a consistent basis.

Yeah. And I love the fact that you can identify whether it's, you know, it separates a bad month from a trend because that helps you get to know your people and how you're going to put them in position and be successful. Which, you know, one of the questions I have for you is in a recent conversation I had with Kevin Eastman, he mentioned that the NBA people are mistaken. They think the NBA is a league full of all stars, when really it's a league full of role players with a handful of all stars in the league. Right. And as you talk about developing leaders, you're going to have high performers, you're going to have all stars, so to speak. But as you lean on the process to drive their numbers.

How do you go about preparing them for when a leadership position does open to get them ready for that? Because we all know that sometimes your top producers and your top performers aren't necessarily your best leaders.

Yeah. So first thing we do is part of our, what we call our vision talks where we talk to them about their professional goals is does somebody say they want to be a leader or do they say they don't? One of the best conversations I had was with a top sales performer who said, look, just so you know, I never want to be a leader. Like I'll help anybody. They can ride along, they can call me for questions like I'm here but I like to run my deal. And he wasn't self, he just was self reflective and new and he. But he's a great team player.

Right.

And he answered questions and did all the great things. Right. But I thought it was such a cool conversation. It's like, don't make me a manager. I don't want to do that. When people say they do want.

Huge.

Yeah, it's huge when people say they do want to. What we'd look for is opportunities for them to serve. That's first and foremost, opportunities for them to help and serve. And the right leaders for us are going to be a go to person on their team. They're going to be a team leader. Not entitled, but just everybody's asking them questions. You know, they're making time for people. The wrong people are going to say they want leadership position and when you ask them to help, they'll never find the time. I remember this goes back a few years, but somebody being in that position so we would send people to them for some help, some questions. They could never find time in their schedule to help. And we said, you really don't want to be a leader. You're looking for the title. Right, Right.

And so, well, I don't have time. And if I get the title, then I'll make time. It's like that's not how it works here. Our true leaders, they can't not lead, they can't not help. Again, a leader is a helper, it's a servant, it's a coach, it's a mentor. And people that mindset, correct me if you haven't seen this with that mindset, you can't keep them from helping people. Like they're going to do it. And so, and we've had stories where you say, you know, where's this person at? Oh, they're In a regional office. They're up in Milwaukee helping a team up there. Really. And they get. They saw the need, they asked for help, they just went and did it. They're not being paid for it. They don't get extra time. They're just doing it and bigger than themselves. Yeah.

And the person I'm talking about is in a great leadership position now. But he was leading before he ever got the title.

Yeah. And you know, to go back to the big producer. Now you're speaking directly to that too. Because they're someone that knows who they are. They're self aware. Right. They know what they're really good at. They know what helps the big picture. They know what contributes. You know, their strengths are.

Yeah.

They don't feel the need to be something that they're not. And I think sometimes folks get caught up in a. Well, you know, they're gonna like me more if I lead. They're gonna. Yeah. It's about what's better for the organization. Right.

It really is. And I talk with our team a lot about this is I tell look at. Don't chase titles or money. Solve problems. Run to the problems and solve problems and help people. That's the best career hack I could give to anybody in Service Express or in any other organization, which is solve problems and help people. And if you do that enough and you're with the right organization, the money, the titles, everything else will follow. It's the same concept of don't drive numbers, help people. It's the same thing. Don't chase the title or the money. It will come to you if you're doing the right things. But if you put the money and the title first, you're going to struggle at least here. Again, some environments might welcome that a little bit more.

But at Service Express, that's not going to get you where you want to go.

We go back to authenticity. Right. You and I talked about it on episode number 22. We talked about it on phone conversations plenty. And I like to break the authenticity down into honesty, integrity and vulnerability. Can you talk a little bit about the vulnerability piece? The ability, not even just admitting you're wrong, but maybe there's that knowledge gap. Right. As a leader, here's what I know, here's the information I have, here's what I need to get to in order to come up with a solution to solve this situation. Yeah. And there's a gap and having the ability to ask for help.

You're on such a great topic because I find this with our leaders, again, One of the mistakes I see repeated over and over is that people try to solve every problem themselves, right? And they don't ask for help. And I, and I look at and I tell them when I coach them, even my executive team, I'll say, like, how many decisions you guys actually see me make where I'm not asking somebody on this team their opinion, if not the whole team. Now, by title, I'm the CEO. I can do what I want. I can make any decision I want in a vacuum by title. But is that the right decision? Is that the right way to do it? No. And I have one view of an issue. I want multiple views of an issue.

And so I will bring it to the group or I'll bring it to people within the group. I don't solve problems by committee either. Don't take it from that. I go to my resources that I have, then I say, here's an issue. I want your perspective on it. Now, ultimately, I'm going to make the decision. It's my responsibility and I'm ultimately going to make decision. I'm going to take a vote on that. I'm going to get all the feedback and make decision. The mistake I see leaders make is they say, I'm going to do this. I'm not going to ask for help. I'm going to protected over here. I want you to know I got it right. And I say, oh man, I don't think you got it because you're not asking for help.

When you're asking for help, then I'll know you got it. But use your resources. We have so many smart people here, other leaders, frontline employees, different departments. Get your information and then give me your thoughts on how to make that decision. And that's being vulnerable to your point. Right. So it's like it's in as a company, we have to recognize and reward that's being vulnerable. I don't have all the answers. When I figured that out early in my career after being coached hard by our founder, who really leaned on me to do that and I really struggled against it. That opened up my whole career.

Why did you struggle? Because I know you're a very humble person, but what you know, and sometimes people always think it's ego that gets in the way. I don't think that's always the reason. What were some of the struggles you had with being vulnerable, some of the challenges that you faced?

Yeah, I'm high in like I do the strengths finder, you know, I'm high in responsibility and belief. That there's, you know, to my top five trigger points. And so I feel like it's my job. I have to do it in. Early in my career, I wanted to protect my team from any challenges that were going on because I didn't want them to worry and I wanted them know that I had it under control. And Mike, our founder, just used to really challenge me on that and just say, you've got to trust your team. And if you tell them and they don't help you, then they're not the right teammate, you know. And so when I finally got that through my head, it came to an apex in my career.

I was really struggling here, and I just said, I have no other choice at this point but to ask for help. And when I did it was amazing to see who would stepped up to say, what can I do? Or here's an opera. Here's where I can help. And when I started to share the problems, you know, I didn't put it on them, but share it. I got so many great ideas that we started implementing. Communication opened up trust. Trust expanded, right, because you're authentic and you're transparent. That expanded. I mean, everything. Dominoes fell into line. When you're vulnerable that way.

I absolutely love what you're saying. And here's the thing. When you develop that trust, in other words, I feel when you're vulnerable, when you make yourself vulnerable, you're going to show your people three things. You're going to show a. That you respect them as a person, you respect their skills and experiences. And the third one I love is you're going to show that you trust them because it's what you're saying, because you're making yourself vulnerable to them, right? You're opening up to them. And what I. And this goes back to my coaching days, is I always wanted to. I wanted those kids to know there is a bigger picture than basketball. You know, I want to make positive impact on them off the court as much as on the court, if not more, right.

And I want to know their families, I want to know their friends, I want to know their successes, I want to know their struggles. And I. And I wanted to trust them. And one of the things that information allowed me to do was to put them in the best position to be successful. I knew what made them tick, and I knew how they were going to respond in certain situations. And I think as a leader, sometimes people struggle where they feel they're powerless, when they make themselves vulnerable, when actually becoming more powerful. Because you're going to get to know your people at a higher level because now they're more apt to be vulnerable to you. Can you talk about that?

Well, yeah. And think of it this way. Any problem that you're keeping all of yourself, you're robbing them for the opportunity to show they can help you and solve the problem. And what did I say just a little bit ago was the best career hack was to solve problems and help people.

Right.

So if I don't share my problems and allow you to help me. Right. And if we don't do that as leaders, we're not serving our team.

Right.

That's part of how you know who's all in and who you can count on. And careers have been made here at Service Express by solving problems and helping people. So you really, you can't consider yourself a servant leader if you're not sharing that opportunity for them to contribute. They're dying for it. They want it well.

And not only that, for them to open up to you and make themselves vulnerable to you. So then you can even put them in a better position to be. Be successful.

That's right. When you're leading by example and you're showing them you can't talk about being vulnerable and opening up if you're not doing it yourself. Right.

So as we wrap up here, let's talk about some of the great things that you have going on in 2020 and anything that you want to share with our listeners. You know, it's kind of fill us in on what to expect from Service Express.

Yeah, I think that, you know, it's a lot of the same at an accelerated pace and a larger scale. I think the stuff that we've been talking about here for the past half an hour or so, the great thing is this stuff continues to scale. Like it's not on to the next new thing. It's continuing to build off of this and going forward. And so at Service Express, we're going to look to continue our geographic expansion across the U.S. we're going to get a look to continue to help our serve our customers and our partners. We're going to keep working to put others first, to help them win the Ziglar quote, you can get everything you want out of life if you help enough other people get what they want. That applies to our employees, to our customers, to our partners across the board.

So it's starting to hit on me. We're wrapping up a decade here. Right. We're about to hit the next roaring.

Twenties and you stay so young. How do you do it?

Yeah, yeah. It's the camera. Camera angle. And just really excited to keep going forward and creating opportunities and doing the right things. All the stuff that I've been talking about and watch the results follow. So.

So as we close, can you share. You told a great story about Juwan Howard. Everyone's seen. A lot of people have seen a clip from earlier in the season when he got down there in the Bahamas and he got down and he actually swept up the sweat off the floor.

Yeah.

During a game. But you talked about a manager that you folks know and. And what he, you know, talked about with the managers. Can you share that story with.

Yeah, I heard a story through one of the team managers that Juwan told them at the beginning of the year that when you're wiping off the sweat off the floor, it's not good enough to just to stand there and use your feet. You got to bend over, you got to get down, got to use your hands and get it all cleared up. You do it better that way. Better for player safety. And then that clip came out of him grabbing a towel and wiping up the floor and said, look, he's using his hands. He's doing it the right way, the way that he taught his team. He's leading by example. So, you know, you talk about a way to get buy in right off the bat.

Yeah. And you guys have to be fired up. Obviously, you're a Michigan man. I mean, you're a Michigan. Huge Michigan fan. So. And, you know, we talked a little bit about the football program as well, and we talked about something. And I want to. I really want to close with this, the amount of respect I have for your culture and the way you do things, because I think it's absolutely phenomenal. And I know there's going to be listeners out there like, okay, how do I find out more about Service Express and how do I possibly join Service Express? Or how do I know maybe I'm interested in doing business with Service Express? Where can they find out more about you folks?

Yeah, you know our website, service express.com we're on Facebook, we're on Instagram. I have a professional page, Ron elvesteffer.com where I share weekly video blogs, some of these leadership lessons that I was talking to you about. You know, I set up the camera and I share them with whoever's interested, and I get great feedback on it. So I love to do it. It's another way to serve and share that on my Instagram and Facebook Page. So we have an ebook on our website, the Service Expressway, that talks about our culture and our beliefs and our values. And it's easy to find out how to apply. We're always. We're people powered. It's not just a hashtag. It really. Everything begins with finding the right people and surrounding yourselves with. With the right people.

So any and all who are interested and, you know, an opportunity like this now or in the future would love to hear from for sure.

You know, Ron, you said something on episode number 22 that I really resonated with me. You love winning the people game, right? That's the one thing you guys are really good at, is winning the people game.

Yeah. And it's something that your competitors can't duplicate. Right. They, you know, we can all say that we have certain response time and things in that nature, but you can't replicate the culture. It's, you know, Peter Drucker, it's culture seeds, strategy for breakfast. And you gotta get the culture right. And I think part of that is knowing what your culture is. I think it goes back to being authentic. Like, we have a culture that works for us. I said it doesn't mean it's right. It means it works for us. I think everybody needs to know, like, what culture works for you and be authentic about that. Because the worst thing you can do about a lead as a leader, as you know, is not be authentic. People will see through that really clearly.

And if you're authentic, it's amazing how much they'll forgive you for your faults and how much they'll embrace you for what you bring to the table.

Well, Ron, I didn't think we could top episode 22, but I'm pretty sure that we did. We just nailed it. That was a great conversation. I appreciate your time. I appreciate all the value that you've shared with our listeners not once, but twice. And I can't thank you enough, Ron.

Well, thanks for having me. I enjoy it. I think you and I could fill up a lot of time and just. It's so funny, you know, our conversations. It's. It's like I talk about it. It's like two musicians getting together, jamming. When you talk about culture and leadership, it's you. When I talk with you, it's like. Like we're jamming together because you're saying all the same things that I'm thinking and that we're talking about and doing. So I really.

It's a lot of fun, isn't it?

Yeah, it really is. Yeah. So thank you for having me. Appreciate it.

Thanks, Ron. I appreciate it.

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