Finding Your Leadership Sweet Spot with Kate Lahey

Hey.

I am sorry.

Oh, no worries. I'm sitting here.

I love to blame it on Vinette, but I had an Epiphany today, and I kind of called the meeting about some stuff we're going to do that I'll share with you in a later date. But I told her, I said, Vnette, I said, you're going to see me operate at a whole different cadence and pace you've ever seen me before? Because there's so much that we can do. Like, our bandwidth for coaching is obviously limited right now. So we have to figure out, okay, then how are we going to drive revenue to finance the other projects that we need to do? And I've been sitting on it for too long, but we need to start selling self guided courses. And it's simple, it's easy. What we want to do is hire a project manager to handle that because I can't have her doing it.

She's doing too much. I can't do have I'll create the actual coursework. But there's a guy who I'm sure you've never heard of because you just haven't been in the space. Tod Herman. And Tod was a coach to elite athletes and really high level CEOs. He's made a killing mentoring and teaching and coaching entrepreneurs with, like, seven, eight digit businesses.

Right.

He's also a little quirky, but he's really super. He's just cool. He wrote this book. The alter ego. I'm not whole into, like, I get as an athlete, you turn on a different side of you and you step on the floor on the field or whatever it is on the court, but he really dives into people like you. And I creating this alter ego in the business world, and I guess it works for some people. But then how do you connect that to the authenticity piece? He navigates it, though. He does a good job. The guy's really smart. And I took a course of his seven years ago about building your business because I really connected with a lot of his writings, and it's still to this day is the best stuff out there. I've looked at a lot of stuff.

It's the best stuff out there. And I actually incorporate some of it into time management when I work with these people on time management. Well, anyways, why did I even bring that up to you? The Epiphany that you had about so his course that I took, I noticed something. The modules would drop every week. He wouldn't give you all 70 modules right away. Well, then I got to know some of his people when I was out in Philly speaking or working with my speaking coaches, and she goes, oh, no. He creates the module the week before he releases it. If you sell 1000 of them, say you sell 500 M at $500 apiece for $1,500 apiece. It's time consuming, but it's not that hard. So I told V that. I said, we're just going to start hiring project managers.

If it's 10 hours a week, 20 hours a week, 5 hours a week, whatever it is. We need to go put job descriptions together, go find project managers. And I've had friends that have done it, and it's worked well for them, but we've never really had the runway of cash flow where we could do it, and we finally have that a little bit. All these people are coming at me like, these people want to do marketing for me. They want to do PR. And I'm like, no, I'm not spending 60 grand on that or 40 grand on that, or this really locked in. So anyways, that's why I'm late. So I apologize.

Oh, no worries.

Tell me about that. What happens?

I was shocked, honestly. We went down, and my mom stayed home with my kids, and it was kind of a little bit of a battle with her because she likes to come. But honestly, I love her dearly. She's awesome, but she drives me a little bit nuts when we're in these appointments because she's like and I'm like, let the doctors talk. And then I feel bad because I'm literally like, quiet.

That's why you're there, though, right? Yeah.

So his appointments are usually in the morning, so I never have an issue with babysitting because the kids are at school. But his appointment yesterday, he had to get a lab at 130, he had to see the doctor at three, he had to get his infusion at five. So it was like this whole long thing. And Tim had a huge presentation yesterday. My babysitters are in college, so they were in class. I was just jammed up. So my mom just said, I'll pick the kids up at school and stay with them. Why don't you take them? Which is fine. Yeah. So I took him, and his blood work came back pretty good. He's anemic, which they didn't really know why, but not crazy anemic. They weren't overly concerned.

But essentially, the doctor, he's down at Mass General at Mass Ironier, which is like, the best of the best, right? This guy, he's probably like 45. Dr. Miller, I mean, as sharp and had the best bedside manners patient. And he just said, listen, he's like, I'm thrilled with the response. He's like, the tumor is essentially gone. He said, your scans look the same. There hasn't been change. But what happens is, well, the scans follow, the tumor shrinkage, so he expects the next time he has a scan for the margins to be much smaller. And he said, basically, like, 90% of the cancer cells are dead. And I was sitting there just to clarify, I'm like.

Did you really say this?

Yeah. So basically what they're going to do is treat and extend. So he's been going every three weeks, so now he has to go every six weeks until February, and then they're going to do another scan to make sure that things are progressing in the right direction. And then at that point, probably to every twelve weeks. And he said, we call a complete response, like, basically no disease. But he said we can't call it a complete response until like twelve to 14 months after. And I said, I'm like, do you anticipate a complete response based on his case? And he was like, I do.

It's amazing.

I couldn't believe it. He was just like, Listen, he's like, this stuff has come such a long way. And he's like, Surgery really isn't an option for my dad. So I was like, thank God it worked.

I was going to ask about the surgery, if that's an option.

Not at this point. Honestly, I think it's like maintenance. I think they're looking to keep if they have to kind of keep doing that, to keep it at bay. I mean, he's 77 years old. It's like, how was he?

Was he fired up?

He was, but I don't think it really hit him. Of course, he drives me nuts because he hasn't been able to work out. He felt like shit. So he's like, So, doc, can I get a cortisone shot in my knee? I'm like, oh, my God. That's where his head went. I'm like, the cancer is gone.

He's like, Can I get a if it was any other way, then you'd be concerned. Then you'd be worried.

I know the doctor's like, well, he's like, generally we don't like steroids with Immunotherapy, so if it's not really altering your day to day, I'd say hold off. And he's like, all right. And then he said to me, we walked out and he had to go upstairs to have his treatment. He's like, after this, we're going to go have a beer. And my dad hasn't said that to me in forever. There's a place across the street from Mash General called Harbor Garden, and it's been there for a million years, and it's like a Boston dive bar. So went over there and had two beers to wait out traffic and then went home.

I've used that one a lot. Wait out traffic. I like that.

My husband.

That is so awesome. He said that? That's cool. That is so great. The anemic part is interesting. See, my mom has that now, too. She's had it for a while, but that's why I was going to ask about surgery, because she's kind of screwed. Like, if she needs a surgery, can't really have it.

Yeah, that's where he's at, too. So it's hard. That's what I said. I was like, that's as good as we can ask.

Know, I'll be honest. I was nervous to ask you last night. I'm like, I can't not test before we connect. You know what I'm saying? Because I didn't want you to jump on. And I was nervous to ask last night. I said it to answer. I go, I really want to ask kate, I go. But.

I was shocked when I called my mother. She was almost emotional with relief because we've all just been so nervous because we've known surgery isn't an option if this doesn't work. It was kind of like.

Anyway, good. Are you ready to do this now? We're going to knock this out. Here's the thing. You're not even going to worry about anything. I will guide you. Be prepared for me to cut you off and what I didn't do yesterday, because I didn't prep you on it, but if you brought up, like, vulnerability yesterday yeah. All right. I will probably get you to expand on that a little bit or something else. I'll get you to expand on it. Don't worry about it. You got going. Yeshaf. There's a ten minute stretch where you didn't think about anything and you just talked and you were doing what you do and just having a conversation. We will get you to that. I'm literally going to get out of your way, and I'll only step in, like, when I want to know more.

Okay.

And that's the thing. Sometimes people like when they do podcasts, they think the host interrupt because they think something's going wrong. No, it's just because I want to know more. That's it.

Yeah, that's fine. The only thing I wanted to ask is if we could just kind of go in order. That's where I think I got kind of messed up.

No, I actually put the questions in a hat, and I'm picking the questions out of a hat, and that's, of course, we can go in order. Yes. I have it right here.

All right.

And when we talk about the athletics of business, I know what you mean by concept, but the listener doesn't understand it. So we can call it like, mindset brand right. Because at the end of the day, what we've talked about for years is that it's the mindset, that the traits and behaviors of high performing teams, elite athletes, and high impact coaches are key to your success in business. Okay, so how you've connected it, how we've connected it? Things of that nature. Because by saying concept, it almost sounds like it's at ground level.

Okay, sorry, what is the term you want me to use instead of concept?

Brand our mindset. Really? Mindset would be the best.

Yeah.

Okay. I'm not going to trip you up with that, am I?

No, I just want to make sure, like, I write it. I just have some notes I'm going off of here. So not a concept.

All right. How are things going for Tim? Business good with him?

Yeah, he's like he had to present to the executive board yesterday. He's essentially taken over downtown, and it's been, like, kind of a long time coming because there were three of them, so him, this girl Lauren, and this guy Kevin, and they were kind of all here, but now the executive team has kind of asked him to run downtown. So there's a downtown team in Boston, then there's a suburban team. So it was kind of a little bit problematic with the other two. So he had to come up with a whole business plan, present to the executive board, like all of that stuff, and it's gone well. And she's I mean, the girl Lauren's a massive pain in the ass, and he's just, like, doing a lot of that stuff. So he's busy, but it's like a good busy.

But it's been stressful for something.

That we'll need to do. I don't know if December will happen, but in the new year, John Denny and John is the one with Buckman Enoch and costs that places in the biofounder biotech space. Jason's worked with a woman from the firm for years. My buddy Mark has worked with them for years. Suzanne Monahan is doing a huge build out with them now, has been doing it well, actually. He bidded on the new build out. They haven't gotten it yet, but anyways, he's reaching out. He's connected with someone in Boston. And I'm like, God, you know, oh, when were out there, Jason said to him, he goes, you need to start getting in with ground level startups when they're in certain positions and equity partners know things like and he connected, him and Mike Campbell.

And I'm going to connect with Mike in Boston when he's out in Boston because that's where I mean, you know, I'm thinking john said he would meet me out there. I would love to introduce John to Tim.

Yeah, we'll just do dinner or something. Drinks.

That's what I'm saying. We'll do dinner. I think that would be really cool to do. And I would stay two nights, and the next night we'd all go to a Celtics game or something.

Yeah, let me know. He can grab tickets from one of his clients, so just let me know.

Yeah, but John's a great dude. Played d three football. I mean, he's a great guy. And helped us get Suzanne on hand. He'll help us get more.

We actually have it's probably kind of tough timing, but we have a box at the Bruins December 30 if you and Jason want to come.

We'll be up in Boint. Yeah, we'll be up in Boyne. That's like my sacred time. I actually schedule Nancy Will 50th on the 20th, which is her birthday on a Thursday. Friday is her recovery day. The 30th, we're leaving and taking all our friends out of the house. I feel, honestly and you'll get this when you get to be old like me. We're starting to plan this. And all these women are so immature and awesome. They're the best. I'm like, guys, you're going to stand something like this. Isn't your college sleepover party on Thursday night? I have a game Friday morning. Yeah, we don't care. We don't care. We'll sleep in the party bus. I'm like, no, that's so funny. Whatever. Yeah, we did get the party bus with the stripper pole, though, which that'll.

Be you got to have that, right?

It's actually going to be really cool. I was down at the comedy club. It's going to be a pretty sweet party, but that's it. But I'm ready to roll here.

Okay.

And we'll connect. Are you around today's? Already wednesday. Are you around tomorrow? Friday. It's away till next week. We'll connect next week.

Okay. Yeah. To kind of go through the just.

Where we're at, like our plan going forward, how we get folks with you, go through what we're going to do and start I really want to start getting into process and what you can expect right. And what you need to feel responsible for, because the thing I don't want you ever to feel is the overwhelm. Because there's no need to be overwhelmed. Like, literally, the prep work is the hardest thing leading up to it. Once you get into the coaching, you read their accountability form, you go back and look at old notes. It takes like 1520 minutes. You do the 45 minutes call, you take notes while you're doing it. If you want to put them in keep. Certain things you can't put in keep, but if you want to put it in our CRM, that's fine. Whatever.

Start a file for your clients and that's it. But I also like to talk to you about maybe mapping out and picking your brain on the first two or three courses I'm going to build. Because I'm just doing things that we can literally build just like that. Yes. I have thousands of pieces of content. I don't need to go through it. Right. This is something that's got to be really stuck in the book. Let's just do something quick. The thing I would love to do when the new year starts is, okay, can we have a weekly call for 20 minutes? Like to start the week or to end week or something like that, just to see where wrapped everything and I mean, I'm going to pick your brain a lot. Like, what do you think about this? Or how would this look to you?

How does this sound to you? Because you're such a wealth of knowledge and way smarter than me.

No, I know about that.

All right, are you ready to roll?

I'm ready.

All right. It's 1024. We'll stop about eleven five. If we go longer. That's fine. We don't need to stretch it out. Like, sometimes I get people on there like, oh, we need to talk an hour. No, we don't. And I've had people honestly, I've broken episodes up into two episodes with guys that came on, like honor. First man with cerebral palsy to scale Mount Everest on his own solo, as well as Ducone Iron Man, mind blowing. Like his story. He had me literally in tears when he's telling, and we become really good friends over the years. He's just an amazing dude. Amazing dude. Even though the last Zoom call I had with him, he was in Mexico where we moved. He had just done this thing with his body where you die.

Basically, they force you to die, and it's like an out of your body experience. And then you come back in. He really got wigged out. Like, my other budy JJ, introduced us. Like, we didn't know what was going on with him, and I'm pretty sure he was on shrooms the last time I talked to him. No shirt on, had just been surfing Jesus, but he was talking about the universe and stuff like that. But then I talked to him again, and he was better, so I don't know if he was just going through a midlife cris. What the hell was going on?

That's something I haven't heard.

That my point is we just made it two podcast episodes. All right, let's roll. All right, we're going to go in order.

I'll try to sit so I don't get out of when I start talking, I start like, don't do it.

Be yourself. Don't constrain yourself at all.

I know, but I don't want to get out of focus because I get blurry.

Oh, that's right. What do you want my signal to be to you if you get out of focus? So I don't have to stop.

I'll just try to be cognizant of it.

I mean, I can do something like this. I can do whatever.

Yeah, do that. I'll try to pay attention to it.

All right, I got 50 says you don't see it the first time I do it.

I probably won't.

Okay. All right. How long does it usually go until? What's your time interval before it goes out of focus?

Well, so I have the logitech camera on my monitor, so it's probably this big on the top of my screen. So if I go over here, it's like I'm talking, and I do that. Is it out of focus now?

No, it's awesome.

I don't know.

It seemed to me like after a half hour, it goes out. Or when you don't.

Maybe, but, I mean, I've been on Zooms for hours. I don't know. I have no idea.

Okay. Do whatever you want to do. Just be yourself. All right? Let's just have fun.

This meeting is being recorded.

All right, you ready?

I'm ready.

That was convincing. Kate, it is so great to have you here on the Athletics of Business podcast. I know this has been a long time coming, but not only am I excited to have you on the podcast, I am thrilled to announce you as the newest member of our family. God, it sound like I adopted a dog there, right? Like the newest member of our family to have you as a part of the Maligu I mean, as a leadership performance coach. It is absolutely amazing. So welcome.

Thanks for having me. I know it's been a long time coming for the podcast, but I'm happy to be here and even happier to be a part of the Molita group. So thank you.

Yeah, we're going to have some fun and do some amazing work in the intro. I prepped, I prefaced, put into context your journey briefly for the listener, but some, especially inside your industry. Such an amazing journey, your trajectory, and you decided to walk away from a senior area sales director role when you were working with people that you truly cared about, you loved, you enjoyed being with, and the story and the authenticity and how sincere the struggle with making that decision is quite remarkable. Could you walk us through that?

Yeah. So for starters, it was the hardest decision, one of the hardest decisions I've ever had to make personally and professionally. And it was a process. I'll call it a process and a long one at that. I think, to be frank, the reason that I made the decision that I made was to fully prioritize my family and focus on my two young kids. I have an almost seven year old and a five year old, and they are amazing little kids, and they're starting to get busier and busier, and I didn't want to miss anything. And I think with a few months of perspective under my belt, it's the best decision that I've made thus far.

It's hard now because the ages they're at, they're starting to realize when Mom's back on the road and she's not at a game or a school event or something like that, I have to think that played into it a little bit.

Oh, it definitely did. I kind of thought once they were in school full time, things would get easier, and it's exactly the opposite. So that certainly played into it. And just to kind of hit on the second part of your question, my career in biotech has been a huge part of my identity, a major source of pride for me over the past 17 years. I have been so fortunate to work for two amazing companies. I've gained incredible experience, and most notably, I've been surrounded by really talented, great people. So I think that's what made the decision, really. You know, when I think about it and going through the know, I had to have the conversation with Mary Beth Howard, who is my manager at the time.

And usually the anticipation of those conversations is much harder than the and, you know, she's a dear friend of mine, somebody that I admire very much, and she kind of knew where things were personally for me with my family and whatnot. And when I went to her, she couldn't have been better about my decision and more supportive, so I really thank her for that. And then I was managing an incredible group of managers for the last year or so, and I've been in leadership roles for the past ten years. The past year I've been managing managers, and that's truly been my favorite role, and it was just really hard to walk away from them. We had really grown close. We built some great teams together and whatnot. So, yeah, that was the hardest part of walking away, for sure.

We'll come back to you just said something that I for sure want to bring up, and that's managing managers, and that was a favorite part of your job. I want to come back to the leading leaders and what you loved about it. Okay. But I remember back in 1998, not to date myself, were let go of Texas A and M as coaching staff, our head coaches. Let go. Right. Don't lift the door. Hit your butt on the way out. And I remember I will never forget the feeling of, what now? What next? Because I had attached my complete identity to being a college basketball coach.

And this has been you've been on this run here for a while, so I have to think that your identity was somewhat, if not really, attached to what you did and who you did it with, who you did for who you did alongside. Was that hard?

Oh, yeah. I mean, I had many conversations with my husband. Honestly, it probably was a six to nine month process for me to come to a decision, and in many ways, I was disappointed in myself, just to be candid. I felt like I should be able to have this career in Biotech and be fully present for my family. And I think what I've learned and what we all know is when two parents are working kind of high demand, full time jobs, it just becomes increasingly hard to have that work life balance. And I felt like sometimes I was coming up short at work and then coming up short at home. And when it came right down to it, I said to myself, I'm like the one place I certainly can't come up short is at home.

And that's ultimately what led me to the decision that I made.

You had mentioned that Tim and you had a lot of conversations, and what I think is really cool. I mean, I've been so fortunate to get to know you too. And my wife and I had so much fun. We were out in Boston having dinner and a ton of laughs. But what was really cool about Tim, what is really cool about Tim and your relationship is that you do lean into each other and you do talk about things. But he never, from my perspective and the conversations I had with Tim had with you. He never said, no, Kate, you've got to get out of it. Like, he knew you were struggling with the process. He knew that you absolutely loved what you did, but he also knew how much you valued the family and you put that before everything.

So talk a little bit about that and how I mean, pretty cool that you guys are able to do that.

Yeah. Listen, I won't tell him this. No. He's the best guy I know. What he said to me was, this is going to be your decision. I'm happy to talk through this with you at nauseam. It's something that it's been a really important part of your life for a really long time, and he's been fully supportive of my and I think that's what was great about him. I mean, when I think about know, Tim is a really smart, sophisticated guy, but I think what really helped me in our conversations was his perspective.

He has the perspective of somebody that I feel like is much older and more experienced than him, and he was able to always kind of provide that perspective for me when I would kind of explain what's going on and this is how I'm feeling and this is what I'm struggling with. So, yeah, I'm lucky to have him as my partner in that regard, for sure.

So it's been how long now since you walked away?

So I resigned in August, so just about three. Yeah.

So this is right about the time when regrets can start kicking in, right? Kids are back at school, Tim super busy. Any regrets?

No, honestly, I was petrified that I was making the wrong decision when I finally made the decision. But the time that I've been able to spend with my kids and be fully present at home, I've had the opportunity to volunteer at their school, go on field trips. And as I've shared kind of this journey with you, the week after I resigned, I found out that my dad, his cancer had returned after about 20 years, and he was about to kind of embark on some pretty challenging treatment. And when we found that out, it almost solidified my decision because I certainly wanted to make sure I was there for somebody that's always been there for me. And we got great news yesterday, so things are moving in the right direction. I won't go into that. It's amazing news.

I'm kind of on cloud nine with that. But I think the decision that I made to prioritize my family and when I say my family, I mean my kids and my husband, but also my parents, it was the right decision.

So I've never asked you this question, which is really OD to me. What about your dad when you decide to walk away and your mom because you respect them so much and you have such a great relationship with the two of them, what were their thoughts about that decision?

So I think my dad was kind of shocked at first. He, of course, would support any decision I made and my mom as well. And they've helped me tremendously with my. Kids when I've traveled and kind of just Tim and myself balancing our jobs. But I think he was surprised because he knew how much it meant to me, and he knew how, I had worked to get to where I was. But at the same time, I think he trusted that I was making the right decision at the time for my family.

Awesome. And I know that means a lot to you, right? Like, the fact so in our early conversations, I guess we should back up. I had the unique, the amazing opportunity to work with you in a coaching relationship. Loved our time together. We connected immediately. It was not an easy time for you. There was a lot of change going on, a lot of growth. There's a lot of different things happening, a lot of moving parts. And you were very open. You were very vulnerable. You were very real. We shared a lot of stories, asked a lot of questions, spent a lot of time on Zoom. And you had mentioned to me you're like, the athletics of business just resonates with me. Can you talk through what was it about the athletics of business mindset that resonated with you?

Yeah, so I think mindset is absolutely the right way to put it. I think it resonates with me for a lot of reasons. I think, to quote you, sports is a microcosm of life. Right? And it's been very formative in my life. And I believe that so much of what you learn and experience in sports, it's kind of, in a way, useful tools that you can use in business, in life. I mean, the fundamental concepts that you learn in sports, I mean, think about them. Work ethic, discipline, trust, communication, strategy, execution, I mean, to name a few. You could go on and on. In my experience, if you lead with those fundamentals, you're going to be successful. So that's really why it resonated with me.

And, I mean, secondarily, sports has been a huge part of my life for so long, and it's in many ways why I am who I am. I feel like a lot of my experiences in sports have really molded me into who I am today. My parents sacrifice to really give my brother, sister and I a great upbringing. Sports were always big growing up. My brother, my sister, myself, my dad, we all played collegiately. My husband's family. I mean, my husband played professional baseball for seven years, a huge competitor. His sister, great athlete, currently coaching Division Two field hockey. And his dad and his brother doing.

A heck of a job of it, too, by the way.

She's doing an incredible job. No, she's the best. And my brother in law and my father in law sports medicine physicians locally. So, I mean, sports is just huge for us. And I started playing at a young age, and I played softball in college, went to Assumption University, was an English major and a secondary education major and it kind of sorry.

Fine. Yeah, you can pause. Yeah. This is a great segue into what you did out of college, teaching and coaching and being a teacher.

Yeah. So do you want to maybe ask me about that and then I will go into that?

So you just said I was an English major in a secondary ed.

Maybe talk me because, you know, sports were just really big in our families.

Maybe could you're good. No, it's too good. It's too good because sorry, john, the next question is about mentors. Are you flexible enough to talk about the facts? Yes, you are, because this is perfect. We'll talk about the fact that you didn't just jump into the biopharma world when you graduated. You first became a teacher and a coach and explain that, and then you can segue into you can talk about the impact Jen had on you and that's why you became a teacher and a coach. And then you can go right into Tommy Murphy and we can talk about mentors in your career. And we're still following the question format.

Okay. You don't feel like I'm rambling? What did I last say?

So what you last said was I majored in English and secondary and whatever you said about okay, John, here's where we're going to start. I majored in English and then go from when you go I majored in English and when you say secondary education, I'll step in and say, as a matter of fact, you didn't really just get into the biopharmace space right away. Tell me about that part of your journey and then we can go from there and segue and we're still following the question.

Right?

I don't think you're rambling, you're killing it. You're doing going to hold on 1 second, John. We're going to start right now.

So in college, I majored in English and secondary education to become a teacher and coach.

As a matter of fact I don't mean to interrupt you, but as a matter of fact, you didn't just jump right into the biopharma space in that profession. Right out of college, you became a teacher and a coach at the high school level, did you not?

Correct? I did, yeah. And my education was not in the sales capacity, it was in English and secondary education. So yeah, that's a little nugget.

Hey, no, it speaks volumes to one of the reasons why you are such a great leader, though, right? You are a teacher and a coach at heart, and you look back on it, we really connect us to the athletics of business, too. You look back on the people in our life that have connected with us the most, have had the deepest level of trust and the biggest impact on us, and it could be little league coaches, it could be softball coaches, it could be everything from our youth to high school to college. I have to ask you this, who was the coach that had the biggest impact on you?

So her name is Jen Breslin and in large part my decision to become a teacher and coach was because of the positive impact that she had on me as my high school basketball coach. And I'm still in touch with know to this day, but she made a huge difference in my life for sure.

Which it's really cool that your high school basketball coach is still talking to you because mine's not and mine was my father.

So that's a little bit well there you go.

No, actually dad's been a guest on the podcast a few times and just absolutely been amazing. But what was it about Jen, what was it about her that had such an influence and impact on you that carried into your professional career and I'm going to guess into how you parent as well.

Yeah, so Jen, I think what it was about mean I really looked up to her as a kid. I mean she was a great athlete at my high school and she was a role model for me and then I got the opportunity to play for which was a big deal. And I think while I was playing for her what I realized was that she really cared about me as a kid at the time and as competitive and as tough as they come, everything she did was to help us in life and whether it be in school or on the court, it was always with positive intent. I mean I can remember her sitting with me in her classroom after school before practice, helping me with my chemistry homework.

She didn't have to do that and that's somebody that I knew cared and somebody that I really wanted to emulate. So that's kind of why I got into teaching and coaching.

Well, I'm just going to say this, and the next question I have to ask is obviously I have some great friends, some peers, some folks that we work with that are in the recruiting space for your industry. And when they're out there searching for great leaders and high performing leaders, high impact leaders, they don't necessarily look for English teachers and high school basketball coaches. So how in God's name did you end up in the biopharma space?

Yeah, so at the time I had a friend that was working in pharmaceuticals and I was interested in kind of potentially making a change and he said, hey, we have an opening in the area, why don't you just interview with my boss? And I mean I did not have a resume that was suited to sales or biotech or pharmaceuticals, but I was like, why not I'll take a shot at it. So I interviewed and I hit it off with Tommy Murphy back in 2006 and got the job. And I have to say Tommy, he was my first manager and he really kind of taught me the ropes and he pushed me to become a field based trainer, which was definitely in my wheelhouse with my background in teaching. And it really kind of furthered my interest in coaching and management.

So that's kind of how I got into things.

So is it safe to say that he was one of the first of several amazing mentors that you had in the industry?

Yes, absolutely. Honestly, I've been so fortunate to have been mentored by incredible managers. I don't think everybody can say really, I really have been lucky in that regard.

Who else? Who are some of the other mentors that really had a big impact on you?

So as I go down the know, I mentioned Jen, Tommy, Amy Harmon. Again, you'll probably hear me say this as I talk kind of through the people that have influenced me, but I have still remained in contact with almost no, I would say all of them, and many of them are dear friends of mine. And I think that kind of speaks volumes of the type of people that they are and the impact that they had on me. I mean, Amy was my manager for several years when I was a specialty rep. She was in the biotech industry for over 30 years in various leadership positions. In my opinion, she was a pioneer in female leadership. One word I would use to describe Amy is always know you know, where you stand with Amy. And I absolutely love that about her.

She's a great communicator collaborator, and I think she had a unique ability to hold people accountable in the best way she could, in a really caring way. And I think Amy was the one that really kind of saw my desire to become a manager and really helped me to get there.

Can we back up for 1 second? She had the ability to hold people me in a caring way. How would she do that? What was it about her that made that possible?

Yeah, so I think Amy really takes a genuine interest in people, and I think you feel that from her. And at the same time, I think she's really clear on expectations and goals and responsibility. And I think she was able to kind of have that relationship, but at the same time check in on goals and help people to kind of reach the goals that they had set for them or her expectations, whatever it was. She was able to kind of mold those things together, if that makes sense.

That's really cool.

Next Mentor next Mentor jason Bay, an amazing podcast guest we all know and love.

An amazing podcast. Great. He'll tell you he has a great jump shot, but anyways, we'll go one of the best. His two podcast episodes were just like this. When you talk and you lose track of time because there's so much again, I'm interrupting you. I'm taking the mic from you for a second.

No, no.

But working with you, getting to know you obviously I've known Jason for years, but getting to know you, the relationship that Jason and you have, and the impact that he has had on you, but I will also argue and he will tell you this, you've had an amazing impact on him too, which speaks volumes to you. And so what was it about Jason, though? So let's get back I'm sorry. What was it about Jason that had.

Such a jason I can't say enough about Jason. I respect him so much as a leader. I mean, I followed him from one company to another. He hired me as a frontline manager over ten years ago. And what he has taught me about friendship, mentorship, and coaching is invaluable. I think first and foremost, you'll kind of hear me say this. I mentioned it. Know Amy and Jen, Tommy, he took a genuine interest in me as a person. I mean, he came out to Boston, he got to know my husband. He took us out to dinner. He took the time to get to know me, and he taught me how important trust was and that it's really kind of the basis of all relationships, even in the professional setting.

And he guided me through my first critical conversations that I had to have and kind of really taught me how to do.

Was what was the advice he gave you in knowing you? And I mean this in a sincere, positive way knowing you were really concerned with making sure that you had that conversation the right way, that you really delivered, that you really connected. What was the advice that Jason gave you in terms of that first critical conversation?

So the first advice that I think he gave me was like, listen, it's okay to be a little nervous about this. I mean, that's human nature, right? Especially as a first time manager, I'm having to have a pretty direct, critical conversation. So that kind of made me feel at ease. And he had said to me, when I have to have these conversations now, even though I have experience, I still get nervous. And it's because you care, you want the outcome to be good. So I think that was the first thing. And then secondly, it was just be objective. Try as hard as it is, try to take the emotion out of it, get the facts, be objective. And you want the other person to know that your intent is positive. You want this to be a good outcome.

And of course, there are circumstances where that might not be the case, but in the vast majority, you want it to be a positive outcome. And I think if you really plan, you're organized, you're objective, you think through things, you practice, the conversation tends to go a lot easier than you probably thought it was going to go. So he kind of taught me how to go about that really early on in my management tenure.

It's awesome. And it is amazing though, as you talk about each mentor, the overriding themes, they care, they took a genuine interest in.

Oh, sorry, not to cut you off. I just want to mention though, one of the other things that Jason really kind of taught me to do, and it was hard for me to do, was to be vulnerable. It's something that when I thought about being a manager initially, vulnerability wasn't something that came to mind and it's really one of the most important things I think you can demonstrate as a manager. And he really kind of taught me that.

Two questions I have for you around that. What was hard about it for you? What was it? Was it the stigma? Was it the fact that you had that athletic mindset from back, just figure out what you need to do, get it done. I don't want to say suck it up, but you know what I mean, right? Just keep grinding, keep grinding and you'll figure it out. And let's start with that one. What was it? That was a challenge.

So I think what it was is I was taking over a team of people that had worked in the space before and they knew more about the disease state, the market than I did. And here I am coming in with no management experience. So I was more thinking to myself, like, I don't want them to think I don't have all the answers. I'm the manager here, I have to have all the answers. And what I learned was, no, I don't have to have all the answers. If you surround yourself with really talented people with diverse thought and you say to them, hey, I don't know that, can you tell me more about that? I think that it makes the team at ease and it makes everybody feel as though you're kind of in a partnership and that's how I try to manage.

For me, it's always been more servant leadership. I want to be the catalyst to my team's success. And I think the way you go about that is really kind of being a partner, getting in there with them. And the other part about it is letting them know that you're there to support them and have their back. And kind of going back to Jason, I think he really was that as a manager to me. And it was so impactful for me that I really kind of wanted to do that for others.

And I did have a second part to vulnerability.

But you before I cut you off.

No, you did not cut me off. Trust me, you know my world. Okay? That was not being cut off. As you got more comfortable with being more vulnerable right. And asking for input and asking for help, I have to ask, what was that like with developing a deeper sense of trust with the team that you were leading now, the ones that have been there for so long, the ones that have been in space, what did that do for the relationship?

Yeah, so I think they kind of put their guard down. I think they opened up more because I opened up more, and it took some time, for sure, but I spent a lot of time with each of them individually, getting to know them and what was important to them personally, professionally, what their goals were. And I think because I knew that about all of them individually. And I think what I tried to do is to kind of manage each individual. And of course, there are team goals and there's quotas and all of that have to be met, but I think if you kind of manage to the individual while having that authenticity, while taking a genuine interest in each person, I think that they will get things done for you. That's been my experience anyways.

And I think what I've always tried to do is advocate for the people that have worked for me and for lack of a better term, just have their back. And I think when people know that about you as a manager, trust is there.

All right, next mentor.

So I mentioned her earlier, Mary Beth Howard. So she's one of my very close friends also. We started out as peer managers together over ten years ago in a really high pressure environment, and we immediately connected with each other. And I was lucky enough to be hired by her into another frontline manager position years later. And what I would say about Mary Beth, she's really a people first leader, and she too, demonstrates servant, leadership, vulnerability, trust. And I learned so much from her. When I worked for Mary Beth, I was a pretty seasoned frontline manager. I had been in the role for quite some time, and from the get go, she had the confidence in me to kind of mentor newer managers. And that's where I kind of absolutely fell in love with that role.

And she was really a champion of me and my development towards an area sales director where I had the awesome opportunity to lead. You know, I can't thank her enough for that. And I think one of the things that I really admire most about Mary Beth was just her selfless in her support of my recent decision. And I think that alone, it just really speaks to her as a leader, you never want to lose one of your people, especially one of your people that you've had a long term relationship with. And she was able to kind of remove that and just say, like, I support you because I know this is what is best for you. And I'll never forget that about her.

I'm going to take a step back into my because something just popped in my head that is really interesting. Over the years, I've seen friendships come and go. I've worked with some of my very best friends. I've worked with people that I became friends with as were on staffs together when I was coaching. It's not easy. It's not always easy. And that's something that you mentioned that Mary Beth and you started out as peer managers together, and that's something that I get in the work that we do with our clients in the coaching arena, is, how do I handle this situation, or what are your thoughts about this?

How were you able to mary Beth and you and how were you able to navigate the waters of, yeah, we're really tight, we're really friends, but we're also in the trenches together, and there's going to be times we don't see eye to eye. There's going to be times we disagree, right? And there's going to be times, how did you do that? Because that is something that helps take your performance. Believe it or not, I'm not speaking to you. I'm talking to the listener. It takes your performance individually, collectively, organizationally, to a whole new level when you find the ability to do that consistently. So what was it?

So I think foundationally, I think we cared enough about each other as friends to make sure that was always kind of the priority. Right. We really cared about each other as people. And then, secondarily, I think that we all knew that it was okay to disagree. I think that we understood and had enough experience that we knew that it would make us better. You go back to some diverse thought, a different approach to things. Let's think about it this way. I think that it can only lead to a better outcome generally. So I think that was a big part of it. And then, honestly, I think we had a ton of fun together. I know that we had a ton of fun together, and that's really important, in my opinion.

If you're working in a high pressure environment, intense situations, challenging situations, good situations, you spend a lot of time with the people that you work with, I think it's really important to take a step back and have fun, and we definitely did that well.

Speaking of fun and speaking of relationships and being extremely close, I would be remiss if I didn't ask you the impact that Tim has had on your career, maybe not as a mentor, but as a sounding board, as a friend, maybe in some roles as a mentor. Just watching you two talk, listening to talk, besides the laughs, it's just really it's you do not see know. We had susanna mentioned Susannah, Matt, Monahan on the podcast together. That conversation blew me away. And when you find professional couples that are both extremely busy, both extremely successful, you have something special. When you're able to celebrate each other, support each other, challenge each other, share ideas, ask questions and shut up and listen. What impact has he had on your career?

A huge one. I think I said it earlier, he's the best guy I know. He's always been very supportive of my career, even when it's been challenging. When we've said like, hey, who's picking the kids up from school today? Like, you're on the road, I have this meeting. It was never an argument. We kind of just figured it out. And I think we're just a really good team. I think in a relationship, I think we put each other's needs often before our own. And I think because we do that for each other, we just have that foundation there that we'll kind of get through anything. We were able to kind of navigate things well as a couple. And my husband works in a pretty intense job.

That's an understatement.

Yeah, he does. And he works with a lot of great talented people for a great company and he has his own set of stresses that he deals with. And while I was working, I had my own set and a lot of times we'd sit over dinner or whatever it was and kind of just talk through things. And I think what helped me and he's probably helped me more than I've helped him, but what helped me was just, like you said, being a sounding board, I would say, like, oh, listen, I have to have this conversation with so and so next week, and this is why I'm concerned about it. And this could potentially happen and this and that. And I think what it is about him is he's very even keeled when it comes to those things.

And I don't know if it's from I've known him for 25 years. I mean, in a way he's always kind of been older than he seems or rather wiser. Wiser? Yeah.

When you get to be my age, you prefer people to choose wiser than wiser.

Yeah. Not older. No, but I mean, I think just his ability to have perspective, to just be even keeled, to be grounded, to think about things in a really pragmatic and thoughtful way has just really helped me in a lot of the situations that I've had to deal with.

Every person you've mentioned, you've talked a lot about fun right. And having fun together. How important is that to you? And you mentioned it briefly, but I want touch on it. How important is it to you and two organizations and two teams to find a way to have funny like people think working hard and grinding and going through the process and fun are mutually exclusive when it's the complete opposite. Can you talk into that a little bit?

Yeah, to be honest, it's right up there with being the most important, in my opinion. I love to have fun personally, professionally, but I think if you don't take that time to have fun with the people that you work with, you're going to be miserable if you just focus on work all the time. Like I said, you spend a lot of time at work. You need to take a break and really just take some time to do whatever it is that people enjoy. It's probably different for everybody, but I think it's really important. A lot of times you're dealing with stressful situations and environments, and you just kind of need a breather from that sometimes.

So to move forward a little bit in the thing that not only you enjoying yourself and having so much fun. The thing that I admired about you as we got to know each other was your leadership style, right? And your approach and how you went about things. How would you describe that to the listener? How would you talk about someone said, Kate, how is it that you do things as a leader?

Yeah, so I think it's probably not one specific description of my leadership style, but I would say that it's probably one of servant leadership. I think I've developed this style because I've been fortunate enough to be the recipient of it, and I think that it works. I mentioned this earlier, but I really, truly have always seen myself as a catalyst to the success of others, to the success of my managers, to the success of my reps, just to success of the people that I'm leading. And I think the foundation of all of that is trust. And like I said, I feel as though people know that you're there to support them with positive intent. They will get it done.

And I think another thing that's super important is just the people that you lead, knowing that you care about them personally as well as professionally.

I'm going off script here. Not that we have a script, but we did not talk about this question, though. We talked about it many times in our conversations when were working together. One of the most recurring themes of conversations I have with leaders, regardless of their level of leadership, whether it's frontline, director, executive, regardless, is the challenge of the individual that has the ability to do it. But they're not self selecting into the culture of the team. They're not self selecting into they're not an awful teammate. They're a little bit of a swirler. Right? Not an awful teammate. They're certainly not a great teammate. And they do just enough to not find themselves on a pip, or they do just enough to fly underneath the radar. I have you here, like, really spotlight on you. I have to ask you this question, though, okay?

Because I'm having a conversation about this later this afternoon with the client. What was your approach or what is your approach with individuals like that?

So I think in that situation, I think what you have to think about is the team, right? So if everybody's on board. With the goal and everybody's on board with working hard and being successful. And you have one outlier that's going to bring the team down. So as a manager, I think first and foremost, you have to have the collective in mind, right. So I think what goes into it first is observation, kind of identifying exactly what it is that this individual is doing. Where are the gaps, how is it impacting the team? And then I was once told as a new manager, if you see somebody taking a cookie out of the cookie jar, tell them they're taking a cookie out of the cookie jar.

So as hard as it is, I think you have to sit down and have a conversation and nip it in the bud early on. And I think as long as, like I said, when you're having these conversations, as long as you're objective and that the intent is positive and the individual feels as though you are looking for a positive outcome for them and the team, I think that generally those conversations go well. And I think the other thing you have to be careful of, and I think a lot of people fall into this, I certainly fell into it. If you have somebody on your team that is not meeting expectations, what tends to happen is you spend a lot of time focusing on that individual. Right? And that is a trap.

And while you certainly have to spend some time with that individual, you cannot neglect the ones that are doing everything right. Right. You have to continue to recognize them, to continue to support them. So that's something I learned. But it's hard. It's hard to balance.

It is hard, but I'm going to make it more difficult for you right now. Okay? Let's say they've attached themselves let's say they've attached themselves to one or two other people on a team, right? Maybe someone that's newer to the team or maybe someone that's underperformed for a while and just survived and they know that they're being watched. And you have this little click. How do you handle that situation? And this one or two people are negatively influencing the new member of the team.

Yeah, I think you just kind of have to stay above it. As a manager, again, you have to make sure that it's not impacting the team as a whole. Right. And if you do find that it is impacting the team, then it's a conversation with both of those individuals, probably individually and then together. And I think what the conversation is, listen, this is a situation that I'm finding myself in as a manager. These are kind of your behaviors that are problematic, and this is kind of the result of your behaviors on the team. So my job is to ensure that this team is successful. So how can we kind of address these gaps that I'm seeing with you to ensure that the team is successful? And that the team culture remains a positive one.

All right. I love it. Thank you. I went off. I love it because it's something honestly, it's front and center for me often because I know the conversations coming up, like, as I prepare for the week and the coaching conversations, I have this conversation often so many times. But now what is it? What is it that you are so excited about joining the monitor group? I know what we're excited about. Amazing human being, amazing leader, just a complete difference maker. But what is it about the work that we do that has you excited?

So I think the biggest thing, obviously, as I mentioned before, just the brand itself resonates with me. I think it's awesome. I love it for a lot of different reasons. I think what excites me the most about joining the group is that what I love most about leading people is just being able to kind of help them through those critical conversations, help them motivate their team, help them create a culture within their team. And I think I'm able to do that here. And I'm still able to prioritize my family, which is the most important thing to me. So I'm able to kind of have this career that I really love, and I think the best parts of this career that I love and at the same time be fully present for my family.

That's so cool. Being able to do that is so rewarding. Now we work together, as we mentioned. I have mentioned several times. What was that like for you? Was that the first time and I never asked you this was that the first time you had worked with a coach when we started working together, or had you macapathy?

Yes.

Okay, so what was that experience like? What did you pull out of it? What was it that benefited you? What were you not sure of going in, but then you were okay of on the other side? Tell us about that.

I think you mentioned and I'm not.

Trying to get you to say that I'm a wonderful guy or anything like that. I just want to hear the listeners talk about you, because it was just really cool to see I wouldn't even call it progress, but to see you evolve into what you brought to each conversation. Right. And each one we got a little bit more crystal clear in all the different things that were going on in your world. So I'm sorry. I digress. I get out of the way. What was it? What was it like?

No, I think it's fair to say that you and I connected immediately. And then I think my executive coaching sessions with you came during a time when I was managing through some change and I was struggling with some work life balance, and the timing was probably ideal. I felt as though I could trust you early on, and that's really important to me. If I didn't have that, I don't know that we'd be where we are today. And I think they helped me with decision making, perspective, critical conversations, motivation. In a lot of ways, they were pretty therapeutic. And just being able to talk through how I was approaching things as a leader, I think was just really helpful to me at the time. And making sure I was showing up for the people that I was leading, that was really valuable.

So I'm really excited to be able to do that for others.

Well, I'm excited for you. And not only excited for you, I'm excited for the leaders that you'll be working with because you are one of the most amazing human beings that I have ever, most sincere and genuine that I've ever and I'm proud to call you a friend. I'm proud to call Tim a friend. And we're going to have a lot of fun together. And Kate, I can't thank you enough. I know you have 8 million things going and let's have some fun.

Yeah, no, I'm looking forward to it. Thank you so much. Thanks for the conversation. Thanks for everything. And I'm really looking forward to what the future has in store.

Amen. The recording has stopped. I might cut the amen out at the end, but anyways, you're awesome. What were you nervous about?

You were like I messed up on that part about Tim. How when I said older than wise, cut that out. We got to make some cuts there.

We'll see.

No, we have to. We have to.

Why will he get pissed?

Yeah, well, not pissed, but a lot of the people he works with, I'm on LinkedIn with. I want to make sure what I'm saying is good.

What you are saying is he has a higher level of emotional intelligence than most men his age and most leaders his age.

And that's what I should have said. I did not.

But it's not what you said. That's what you meant. And they will decipher that, right? They'll decipher that.

Yeah. No, we have to cut that out because I can't I really was uncomfortable about that.

You know what? I'm still going to collect clips of it, though, and send it to him. Just so you know. I'll see what my guy John can do. Okay. I'm writing it down right now. That was awesome. And you know what I just realized too? We can do a ton of stuff like this. Like just videos sitting right here. I will bet you there's 15 pieces of content from that we can use. That's why I kept asking to go deeper on stuff. And you bulleted. Everything. I mean, with Jason, you bulleted, with Amy, you bulleted. What she mean? That's all. That's all we have to do, right? So you were and I'm going to tell you this the other day when I knew that you had your dad's appointment yesterday, you were nervous. Like, you were nervous about this. You were nervous about dad.

You had a lot going on. That was the best thing that we decided to do was to record it today, especially since you were just completely yourself.

Well, thank you, but when will I be able to hear it going live.

Without you hearing it?

No, you'll edit it. Like, you can take things out, but it'll be like the full interview.

Yeah, but here's what he does. He cuts out my UMS he cuts out your, UMS he cuts out dead time. If something's wonky with the sound, he'll cut that out. He'll try to clean it as much as he can. There really wasn't any it was weird. I mean, Kate, I'm telling you, being dead serious, you absolutely nailed, like, the end product. You judge how you did by the end product. When you hear your end product, you're going to be like, holy shit, really? That was me. And not because he just cleans it up right. And he makes it very clean. That's it. It's the only word I can use. Smooth. But he'll have it done by Monday.

Can I rerecord my part about the emotional intelligence, what you just said?

You can rerecord it all you want.

But I'm stick that in.

We can we can do our best. And actually, Suzanne and I did something like this, but hers was at the end. Okay, I'll ask you, what is it about Tim?

Well, I think the question you had what was the question you asked me when I started to ramble?

What was the impact Tim had on your career? Has had on your career?

Yeah. So I was okay with the beginning. We're a good team. We're supportive. We put each other's needs before our own, all of that.

Okay. Can I make a suggestion?

Yeah.

Here's what you can say, because this will be funny, but then it'll be serious and it'll be sincere. You can know Tim. I almost want to say he's older and wiser, or he's always been older and wiser than his age. But really what it is, he is incredibly more emotionally intelligent and aware than most men his age or most people his age. If you don't want to man bash. Okay.

Okay. All right.

Do I need to ask you a question, or can you just roll with that?

I can just say it.

Okay. Are you sure? All right, here you go.

This meeting is being recorded.

John, we are going to replace the older and wiser piece where Kay talks about her husband. She's a little bit uncomfortable with that. And no, her husband is not emotionally soft. It's just she wants to say something that we have something a little bit more powerful. So if we could replace the older and wiser piece with this piece, that would be phenomenal.

So I would like to say that my husband is older and wiser than most, but I think what it is his emotional intelligence is kind off the charts, to be honest. I think he's an incredibly self aware individual, and he's able to kind of just provide me with that perspective when I go to him with a work situation.

The recording has stopped. Perfect.

All right.

Perfect. And if it doesn't fit, we'll figure it out. Okay?

Yeah. We have to figure that part out.

Don't sweat over it. Don't lose sleep over it. Okay? Just we'll get it taken care of. I will create a video clip, though, and send it to Tim. Okay.

All right. So he'll have these edits done Monday, you think?

I think so, yeah. I'll have you in that ask. I'm running out here. I got a lunch now.

Okay.

Today's Wednesday. Yeah. There's no reason he should have him done by Friday. And we'll say, can you have them done by Monday? And then you can give it a listen? And that gives him the rest of Monday, tuesday.

Okay.

To get him right. All right.

All right. Sounds good.

All right, what do you got going the rest of the day?

So what do I have today? My kids have tutoring after school. Then Jackie has field hockey tonight. Yeah. So not crazy.

My wife's off for so there's indoor soccer, right? And my daughter, unfortunately listens to me that it's basketball season. So we're sitting there day and age. She goes, what time is your skill development today? I go, It's four to five. She goes, oh, window soccer is at 730, and Maddie and I like, make I can get don't say one word. Walk away. Don't say a word. And she looks at me and she goes, what? I go nothing. I'm not going to say a word. She goes, oh, I know it's basketball season. I go, Hon, she has five basketball games this weekend. She have four practices this week, skill development, two tests. And what is it she always wants to say?

She wants to be a kid too, but if you think she needs to go to indoor soccer at 730 to 930 at night, have at it. God, you're such a prick. But that's it. We focus so much on just today, we forget what they've had the entire week.

I know.

Because we spend so much time thinking about what we have to do.

I know.

I'm just as guilty as anyone.

I know it's hard. Mikey woke up this morning, he's like, do I have to go to school today? I'm like you do? It's only, like, just still on Thanksgiving.

Break, EJ's had this really bad tank in his neck for the last three days. And he goes, dad, I think I figured it out. I go, what's up, buddy? And he turns like this to look at me. He goes, my neck. I go, what's that? He goes, haven't played Fortnite in two days. I go, Is that what it is. He goes, can I play? He's walking up the stairs. I go, no, you can't play. He's like he keeps walking. He goes. Let me guess. NBA two K or Mad? And I go, that's right. One of those two, but no fortnite. And he just kind of walks away talking to himself. Kids are funny, man. Well, hey, so how do you feel about this? Besides the older and wiser? How'd you feel?

I feel good about it. Yeah.

If it's okay with you. This is what I've done for a lot of my podcast guests is I make clips. So, like what you said about Jason, I have sam is my video guy. I have him collect clip and I send it to Jason like, man, you're going to love this.

Here's what Kate said about you text it to him.

I'll send him an email, say, hey, man.

No, that's yeah, that's cool.

I mean, just like, oh, by the way, this was an awesome part of it because it means a lot to people like Jason, right? You want me to do it for so, yeah, I'll do it and whoever else you want me to get. But it means a lot because what it does, it stops them in their traps in the day to day.

Yeah, no, I think that's great, especially because you're obviously in contact with Jason, but somewhat with Marybeth, too. So I think that's good.

Did you like how I kind of went to the friendship thing and navigate waters? You know, he's going to see eye.

To eye and how yeah, no, I probably could have said a little bit.

More there, but we probably also could have been really funny about stuff, too.

I know.

I mean, I could have said, god, it's so awesome how Mary best remains so close to me and hasn't ghosted you or Jason.

I know. Well, you know what? I forgot her 50th birthday last week.

Yeah, it's okay. You know what? Six months from now, it's all going.

To be like I know it was the day after Thanksgiving and I don't think I looked at social media the entire day and that would have reminded me. And then Saturday I was like, but I'll send her a bottle of champagne or something. I don't know.

Yeah, I don't know that Jason remembered.

He wrote on Facebook. But I would have text. I would have called her, but what do you do? She still hasn't called me.

Which I don't wish people happy birthday until they call.

Whatever.

All right, well, have a good rest of your day. This is awesome. I will give you definitive answer on when we will have this for you.

Okay, sounds good. Thanks.

Tell Tom I said hey.

I will. Bye.