From Baseball to Bull Riding: Winning with the Right People with JJ Gottsch

The real stories and hard lessons to help you level up your leadership and performance. Now your host, Ed Molitor.

Welcome back to another episode of the Athletics of Business podcast. I am your host and CEO of.

The Molitor group, Ed Molitor.

Now, there is no introduction that I could do that will do today's conversation and today's guest any justice whatsoever. I am joined for the third time by my good friend and one of the most incredible humans that I have ever had the good fortune of getting to know, JJ Gotcha, who previously joined us on episodes number 82 and 88 when he was COO of Ryan Sanders Sports and entertainment, an organization and families that he has spent half of his life, most of, if not all of.

His adult life, working alongside and building.

Just a great organization, and for that matter, great organizations. And now JJ joins us as the CEO of the Austin Gamblers of the PBR team series, which we will talk all about. And you can find so much information.

About in our show notes. And I'm just going to tell you.

This is one of the most real conversations. I mean, JJ had to make a big decision. We talk about change. We talk about decision making. We talk about all the stakeholders involved in your decision, how to make it.

Quick, and how to gather the right.

Information and the right input. They just share stories about building something special, what he built at Ryan Sanders sports entertainment and what they are building inside of the PBR team series, specifically.

With the Austin Gamblers, the people, the.

Leaders, the Bull riders, what they're doing for the fans, what they are doing for the city of Austin. I mean, there is so much here. There's so much in this conversation. I can't thank JJ enough, and I'm just going to get out of the way and let this conversation speak for itself.

JJ Gotch.

JJ, thank you so much for joining me again on the Athletics of business podcast. I am too fortunate to have you on for a third time. Previously on episode 82 and 88, which seems like a lifetime ago.

Well, I was hoping that I didn't.

Bring the ratings down of the athletics of business podcast too much.

Quite the opposite.

At some point, I would get invited.

Back again, but no.

Yeah, a lot has changed, I think.

Since episodes 82 and 88.

Obviously, the world's in a different place.

Personally, I'm in a different place, but.

Both are exciting times, and I'm excited to be back on the show again.

Well, speaking of a different place. Congratulations on all your success and your new role with the Austin Gamblers as a CEO. And there's so much just to jump into here, but tell us a little bit about your last year at Ryan Sanders sports and entertainment. 24 years, just an unbelievable run. And what the transition now has been like and what that decision making process was like, what this looks like for you professionally, family wise, just everything that went into it.

Yeah, I mean, literally half of my life was spent working for the Ryan family and the Sanders family and just.

An incredible group of people, not only.

From ownership, but the group of people that we got to work with every.

Day, not only in, around rock, but.

In Corpus Christi and a lot of the other events and the companies that were able to establish.

So, yeah, it was an incredible run.

24 of the best years of my.

Life really formed me as a person, formed me as a business leader, helped.

Me in terms of understanding the importance of community and culture and all the things that make franchises successful and businesses successful.

But it was just an amazing run. And honestly, the beginning of the year.

I tried to do a reset kind.

Of personally and professionally, and my wife.

And I had kind of looked at what were the next ten years going to look like.

I had just turned 50 and was.

Looking to try to retire sometime between 60 and 62.

And so we created this kind of ten year plan and kind of got.

Together with our retirement folks and just kind of walked through everything and kind of what the game plan and strategy.

Was going to be.

And then about three weeks later, in.

Late January, that whole plan got scrapped.

Isn't that what happens, though?

Yeah, you make plans and then somebody laughs at you. Right?

That was definitely the case.

But no, just an amazing opportunity to, obviously, to join the PBR, the new.

Team series, the Austin Gamblers, a really.

Dynamic ownership group led by Egon and.

Abby Durbin, and a group that they.

Put together with their home office and some new members, including Michael Dell, as a minority partner.

So, yeah, I went from working for.

One of the greatest families, not only in Texas, but in sports, to working again for arguably one of the most dynamic groups in sports and entertainment right now.

Can you talk about the similarities? I mean, you're truly blessed, and I mean that in the best way possible to have worked for two just unbelievable groups.

Right?

And we're talking about values based, we're talking about work ethic, we're talking about loyalty, we're talking about creativity, just everything. And obviously, that speaks to you and to what you draw, but what are some of the similarities you see, with Ryan Sanders, sports and what you're doing.

I think, you know, as it relates to really the ownership piece of this.

Thing and kind of who I'm working for.

As wildly different on the surface as someone like Nolan Ryan and Egon Durbin may seem, because obviously Nolan Ryan, in his 27 years in the big leagues, one of the most dominant right handed.

Pitchers of all time, from an athlete.

Standpoint, one of the greatest ever.

Right.

But then you look at Egon Durbin, and probably not from the on the field athletic success, but in terms of.

In the boardroom and on the business.

Side, one of the most successful careers.

Of any american businessman in the last however long.

So those things are a little bit different, but they're similar in two really.

Key components, and it's the basic styles that they pass down.

And this is something that the Ryans.

Were really honed in on.

And it was go and find the best people we can, find the best.

Talent, and then support them however you.

Can, and then stay out of the way. Egon's the same way as Nolan in terms of he wants us to go.

And find the best talent not only.

In the front office, but obviously the.

Guys writing for us.

And then he wants us to support them to no end in any way that we can, to make them the most successful that they can be.

And we can be on the dirt and off the dirt.

And then they're both very private. Nolan is not someone that ever looked for the limelight. In fact, the new documentary that has just come out facing Nolan, which has.

Gotten rave reviews, the boys, and really Ruth had to talk him into doing that.

It wasn't something that he wanted to do.

He was very private.

And Egon's the same know. And as much as we want to promote the fact and his success and.

Him being our owner, he and his wife Abby, originally being from Texas, he's.

Like, listen, I'm not the face of this thing. He goes, I want you. I want our coach, our head coach, Michael Gaffney, who's one of the living legends in PBR, and I want our.

Writers to be the face.

He goes, I'm not the face of this thing. You guys are.

And so in a lot of ways.

Those guys are the same. And it's very basic business principles.

Right?

And you can dive in and really.

Get into the details of a lot of things, but it's really be hire good talent, hire good people, compensate them and support them however you can and then let them run with it.

And really basic core business principles that both. That's what I kind of grew up in over the last 24 years with the Ryan and Sanders organization.

And then obviously now with the Egon and Abby and obviously Michael as know.

With Michael, it's know he just wrote a book.

He's got a very successful book out right now. Play nice, but win. Right?

And so he and Egon work together with Dell and some different, you know, a lot of those things, the core principles. You've been doing this a long time.

You interview a lot of people, and.

A lot of people have different approaches.

It's kind of like batting and pitching.

Somebody may have a different batting stance, a little different ways where they hold.

Their hands, kind of where they set up. Same thing with pitching, but it all.

Comes down to like three or four core principles.

And I think that's the same thing with business sports in our related industries.

There's a few things in there I want to get to, but I want to back up for a second. They both kind of shy away from the limelight. They don't like being out front. They don't like the attention. I'm curious, is that because they're not comfortable with it or is that because they think that's the right way to be, to get into the background and let others be the face of the franchise?

I think it's the latter.

Right.

I think they know their role.

Right. And they know what they want to do for a lot of them.

Again, these sports teams are just one.

Of many businesses and one of many parts of their lives. With the Ryans and the Sanders, in addition to having minor league baseball teams, we had a hospitality company, we had a turf company, we had Nolan's foundation.

Had a small community bank, had a.

Beef company, had all their land interests and ranching interests. And so there's a lot of things.

You can't be everywhere at once.

And so the best way to do.

That is to delegate and go find the best talent. And that's the same thing with the Durbans.

Right. They're involved in so many different things from being on the boards of Twitter.

Dell, Motorola, being the chairman of the board for endeavor.

All the different organizations that they're involved with. You can't be everywhere at once.

And so just by virtue of time.

You'Ve got to go out and delegate and find really good talent and again.

Support them and then let them go do their jobs.

The different things about sports are, is.

That I do think that we end.

Up getting a little bit more attention.

Not only from the public, but sometimes from ownership, because it's fun, right?

This is one of those things to.

Where you can actually go out and compete.

And for folks, like, they're.

Even though they're quiet, reserved, and a little bit of private, they're competitive.

And that's the same thing when working.

For the Ryans and Sanders.

Nolan was uber competitive. Ruth, his wife, was super competitive.

The boys are competitive.

And it's the same thing with the Durbans.

They want to win at the end of the.

We want to do it the right.

Way, but we want to win. We want our riders to win in the dirt.

We want to win on the business side. We want to sell the most tickets.

We want to sell the most merch. We want to be the best brand.

And so that's another trait that I think that follows, along with really successful.

People, is just that competitive drive, that.

Whole drive to win, that whole thing. You go, you get the number one pick, you hire Michael Gaffney, who is an absolute legend.

Right.

2005, I believe it was ring of honor.

Inductee.

Talk about what you looked for. A, in the head coaching position, and b, in those writers that you chose in the draft.

Well, interestingly enough, Michael was actually brought on right before me, and I could.

Not have been any luckier to have a mentor like Michael, crazily enough.

So Michael grew up and was from.

New Mexico, but he actually lives here.

Now with his family, because during COVID which was during episodes 82 through 88.

I believe, on the Athletics of Business podcast, his son's a hotshot soccer player.

And New Mexico basically shut down, more so than the rest of the country.

For a lot of reasons.

And there just weren't opportunities for him to play. And if you remember, when we talked.

Texas was a little bit more open at that time. And so they have the opportunity to.

Come to Austin, which has become a hotbed in the soccer world right now, especially domestically. Unbelievable youth programs here.

Opportunities for young players to play everywhere.

From the rec league all the way.

Up to competitive playing for the Austin FC Academy and everything in between.

So they have the opportunity.

So they moved here and brought Michael's.

Son, Merrick, to be able to play competitive soccer.

So he'd been here for the last year or so.

So he was here. Him being here and being able to kind of be here in person, mentor me, shepherd me along the way, because for me, the business side of sports.

It'S pretty similar when you look at it.

Doesn't matter if it's boxing, if it's rugby, if it's soccer, if it's baseball.

If it's bull riding, at the end.

Of the day, you're creating an event, you're producing an event, you're promoting an event, you're marketing an event, you've got sales, you got merch. A lot of those things are very similar in the blocking and tackling of them. Obviously, what's different is the actual component of what the athletic event is, right? If it's in a boxing ring, if it's in a bull riding arena, if it's on a baseball field or a basketball court.

So those things are different.

And what Michael has been great with.

Is really, over the last four months, has been giving me a 30 year.

History of bull riding. The PBR.

What goes into making a successful bull rider?

The operation of the PBR.

Because Michael was one of the founders.

30 years ago in a hotel room in Scottsdale, Arizona, he and 20, I.

Think, 19 other writers who just didn't.

Feel like that they were getting the reward for the risk that they were.

Putting out night in and night out.

They decided to make a change, and they founded the PBR. Back in 1992, each guy kicked in.

$1,000, and Michael tells a great story.

He said, while the check wasn't hot.

It was definitely warm, and it wasn't.

Something that his wife was, Robin was very fond of.

But he took a risk, he took a gamble, pun intended.

And 30 years later, it's become one of the most exciting sports and leagues in the world. And so, again, he was one of the founders. He was a world champion in 97, Ring of Honor, as you mentioned, in five.

And beyond all that, he's one of.

The nicest human beings I've ever met. He's just incredibly patient with me in.

Terms of teaching me about the sport.

About the personalities, about the people that have made this sport successful, whose shoulders.

That it was built upon.

And it's so much fun because for.

The last 25, 30 years, I've always.

Enjoyed when people come to the ballpark and talking and going really inside baseball.

With them, in terms of why guys.

Are playing in certain positions when a shift goes on, what pitch a pitcher is probably going to throw, where the.

Hitter is trying to hit the ball.

To make the game more enjoyable for people. Because when you know more about it.

You enjoy it more.

And I'm sure the same when you're at a basketball game and you're talking with people about why people are going into a zone or dropping into a.

One, three one, or whatever it is.

Once you understand the mechanics of the game, it's just more enjoyable.

And for me to be able to.

Go to bull riding events, to PBR.

Events, and sit next to Michael Gaffney.

And him give me the inside baseball.

On bull riding, it's been awesome. He's looked up to by everybody, from.

The guys that he founded this thing.

With 19 years ago, the people that have come along the way, and then.

The writers that we just drafted a week ago. You look at the reverence that these.

Guys have for Michael, and it's true.

And they love him, they respect him, and they're excited to have him as a coach.

So how do you do that? Right. Well, I'll get to that in a second. I want to back up. And you talk about how he's helped educate you on the last 30 years of the sport, and he's teaching you.

The ins and outs.

How important is that to you? And you've shed some light on it, but how important is that to you as a leader, to be able to tell the story, to not have to have the others tell the story, but you, to be able to tell the story to your sponsors, to your fans, to the people that you are thinking about hiring, that you're recruiting? How important is that to actually have a good breadth and a wide and in depth knowledge of the history of the sport?

Well, you got to know what you're talking about, right? If you're selling something, you've obviously been in athletics your whole life and coaching, but you've been selling. And people understand if you don't know what you're talking about, and if you.

Don't know what you're talking about, they're.

Not going to have a trust in.

What you're talking to them about and.

What you're wanting them to sponsor or partner with.

And so the one thing for me is that while I've been in baseball for the last 25 years, I grew up in Nebraska.

I grew up in and around an ag family.

Two of my cousins and my uncles were huge farmers.

One of my other sets of my uncles were huge in the cattle industry. I think top eleven cattle feeders in the nation. When were done playing baseball around.

July 4, because there wasn't select baseball when you and I were growing up.

I'd get shipped off to one of the feed yards for two weeks to a month before school started.

And so I grew up around it.

I got to scoop out rotten feed bunks in the morning.

I got to throw hay. I got to dig post holes. I got to go work cattle.

The lifestyle and the Ag western lifestyle.

Isn't completely foreign to me.

It's just been a long time since.

I've been around it. I knew a little, almost enough to.

Be dangerous, but I didn't really understand. I enjoyed watching bull riding and enjoyed the PBR, but didn't really understand the mechanics of it.

So now, again, I've still got a ton to learn, but Michael's done a.

Great job of really shortening the gap.

And then the PBR from the league.

Office have created an incredible support system, not only for me, but for the other seven gms and CEOs of these.

Other teams to really get us up.

To speed on operations and not only the history of the PBR, but what we're trying to create now as a league.

How does Michael do that? Okay, because he's so looked up to, and he's on such a pedestal for everyone involved, especially the writers that he's coaching. How does he break down that wall to be able to connect with them on a one one level and to break down and connecting with you.

And to be able to come down.

To where you are and just communicate at your level?

How does he do that?

Well, one, in its very simplest nature.

He'S one of them, right?

He's been a writer, and he was a writer, I think, until his late 30s.

These guys, they live a lifestyle, and.

They have a job that is unlike any in the world. There's few people in the world that they can look in the eye and know that person understands what they're going through.

So he's a guy that literally gave.

It his all every weekend.

And one of the unique stories about him is he talks about when he went to the NFR and I think.

Rode all ten bulls one year. And I don't know if it was.

90 or 91 or whenever it was, which is an amazing accomplishment.

And whatever the check that he got was for that accomplishment, it basically got.

Him back to zero for the year.

He had one of the greatest accomplishments.

That a bull rider can have, and.

It got him to zero. And so he's lived a tough, hard life.

He's broke every single bone that these guys have broke.

He's almost died. He's done all those things.

And so for him, I don't want.

To say it's easy, but he can look those guys in the eye because he's one of the few people that.

Can, and they're going to trust what.

He says because they know he's been there.

And the other thing is this, is that not just Michael but I've gotten.

To be around some great people throughout my life in terms of sports and entertainment, athletes and artists and entertainers. But these bull riders and the folks that are around this sport are some of the nicest, most humble human beings.

I've ever come across in my life.

And so they have a genuine trust for each other. And you see that even when were going to these individual PBR events.

Over the last three months, that when.

The guys weren't riding, actively riding, they were up in the shoots supporting and helping the other riders before and after their rides. It's a very close knit community, and it's built on trust, so it's exciting. And Michael's obviously been a core group.

Of that whole community.

How did the team series come about? Where did the whole thought process come from with the PBR and going into a team series? I love it. I think it's an absolutely amazing concept. Was there another business model that you followed, or was it, hey, I really think this is a way to take this sport to a whole other level and maybe get the guys rewarded financially for the way they should be rewarded. Mean, what was the thought process behind it?

So, really, this was the CEO and.

Commissioner Sean Gleason's idea.

The way that he tells this story, and I may get this wrong. So, Sean, if you're listening, I apologize.

In advance, was that he had cooked.

Up this idea for a team series.

Several years ago and really had put.

A whole book together on and playbook.

On how he wanted this thing to roll.

But the issue was that there was a lot of conflicting scheduling from commitments to Las Vegas with where the PBR finals were, commitments with multi year contracts.

With sponsors of the league, and a.

Lot of things that just didn't line up to where it was going to.

Make it possible to launch a team.

Series in conjunction with the individual season.

And then COVID happened.

And so that kind of upset the apple card, as we all know, and it kind of reset a lot of different things.

And so they were able to finally.

Figure out a way to work this thing in, manipulate it a little bit.

To where that they could do both.

There still were a few hiccups, and there's still going to be a few.

More, but I think what we've seen.

Leading up to the draft and then the excitement on draft night, which was just simply awesome at Texas Live, it.

Was one of the funnest nights I've ever had in sports.

But we have seen that this thing's a real thing, and people are excited about it.

The writers are really excited about it.

I truly think that this is going to grow and elevate the sport. I think it's going to not only.

Help the PBR as a league, but.

I think it's going to help the.

Know in terms of not only, I believe, compensation in the dirt, but what.

They'Re able to, the value they're going to be able to create outside the dirt as well with different partnerships and sponsorships. I think that the PBR in itself was already wildly popular. The writers were popular. They had fans throughout the world. But now you've got eight distinct markets.

That are going to be able to.

Again now work with a PBR and another engine to promote this sport. It's not just eight new franchises or markets, but it's eight really well organized.

Well run, well healed organizations.

Obviously, with our ownership group, with Abby and Egan Durbin and Michael Dell, you do a little roll call of the entire league and you go out to Arizona and you got Thomas Toll and, you know, big movie disruptors, executive producers, several successful films.

They're looking to do some really exciting.

Things with Teton Ridge and that brand.

When you go up to Fort Worth, you've got the Fisher family, who started.

The gap, several other prominent clothing companies.

They own the Oakland days.

They own an MLS club in San Jose.

You go up to Kansas City and.

You'Ve got the Pulley family, the folks that own bad boy moors. You go over to Springfield, Missouri, or.

Actually Ridgedale, Missouri, and you got Johnny.

Morris, who's the founder of Bass Pro Shops.

You go to Nashville and you got.

Morris Communications, a big media conglomerate, really.

Big in the western lifestyle, western sports space. They're going to crush it.

And then you go over to our furthest east location and market, and that's.

Winston Salem, run by none other than Richard Childress Racing and that group.

And obviously the success they've had in the NASCAR community. The team's going to be run by.

Richard's grandson, Austin Dylan, fantastic NASCAR driver. Right now it's a great group of.

People that are not only well healed.

Financially, but have got a lot of experience.

You're going to be able to bring a lot of different things from different.

Areas of sports into the PBR, into this team series and help it grow even more.

Well, that was my next question. I don't want to get ahead of ourselves here, but the vision, when and how does this expand?

One of the first questions that I get is after I get asked, what is the PBR team series and what is the gamblers and I tell them and I kind of go over that.

Story, then it's like, well, how do.

I become an owner? How do I get into this thing? Or why wasn't I asked? And so I can't tell you how many wildly prominent and successful people that.

I know inside and outside of sports.

Have asked to become a part of this thing. And I know that the other markets and gms and CEOs have had the same thing, and I know that the league office.

So I think we're going to probably.

Try to walk before we run. We'll probably need to get at least.

A year or two under our belt.

And just work out all the kinks.

In the steel, because again, this is a brand new league. When I came into baseball and when.

We launched the Express in 2000 in.

The hooks and Corpus Christian five, the.

Sport of baseball has been around since the 18 hundreds. So we had a couple of playbooks.

To go off of.

Yeah, there's a few stories there, too.

Yeah. So we don't now. Right.

And so we got a lot of smart people in the room at the league level and at the team level.

But again, this is a brand new thing. So there's going to be some hiccups along the way and that we're have.

To get through, but it's hard to forecast this thing.

And I don't know exactly where Sean's vision is, but my guess is within three years, this thing's going to expand.

To several other markets, not only domestically, but potentially internationally as well.

Because that's the thing. This isn't just a United States sport.

This PBR has got offices in Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Australia.

It's a huge sport.

You look at the top 20 bull riders in the world during this last.

Individual season, and half of them were from Brazil. Our team alone. So far we've only got nine guys out of our twelve man roster.

We've got three guys from Brazil, we.

Got two guys from Canada. We got Native American. So we're going to be one of the more diverse teams, I believe, in the league.

How awesome.

No, it's great. Yeah, it's great. I told somebody, I was talking to somebody here the other day and I was like, we're like the beneton of the PDR. And then I realized the person was like under 30 years old and had no idea.

I had no idea what you're talking about.

And I was like, God, that was so good. It was so witty and it bombed.

If they only knew. That's so fascinating. Now, is there on a global level or somewhere overseas? Is there a team series or is this the first team series that you know of?

So this is the first team series in this concept. They have done some similar concepts on some one off events. So the PBR has got a product.

Called the Global cup, which has taken.

Place every year, and I don't even.

Know how long, but for a while.

It was just held up in Arlington in early March.

I believe they tagged it along with the american, one of the biggest rodeos in the world.

And what that is that is a country by country competition.

And so Brazil had a team, Canada.

Had a team, Australia had a team, and then America actually had, I believe, two teams. It was a fantastic event, and it's super fun. And what you end up seeing is, again, while this is predominantly an individual.

Sport, when you make it a team competition and it's five on five, now.

You'Ve got four other guys that are counting on you. And so not only the pressure of you needing to stay on 8 seconds and trying to get a great score, but now you've got other guys that.

Are counting on you, but also supporting you.

And it's so much fun. And you would see, after these guys.

Would have their qualified ride, the other.

Guys would jump out of the chutes and go and hug the guy.

And it was a lot of fun.

And that was kind of the first, I guess, closest thing for me to.

Be able to see, potentially what this team series may look like.

How intense is it up close and personal? I mean, baseball is such an awesome sport to watch. Much different in terms of level of sustained intensity for those 8 seconds and throughout the whole day, how intense of a sport and an experience is this.

When you go, it's like anything else, Ed, I think if you watch an.

NBA basketball game on tv, or maybe in the middle or upper deck, it's.

One experience, but if you're on the.

Court, it's a different game. If you go to an NFL or division one football game and you watch it on tv or you're up in the deep in the stands, it's one thing.

But if you go on the sidelines.

And like when I went to the big twelve championship game and watching dominican.

Sue thrown around Colt McCoy, it was.

Nothing I could ever seen in my life. These gigantic six foot, 6400 pound men running 4640s, just throwing humans around, it was like anything I'd ever seen.

And it's the same with bull riding.

Now, while bull riding in the PBR is still exciting on tv and in.

The upper levels of the stands.

When you go down to the dirt and you see these 2000 pound animals, you hear these 2000 pound animals, you feel these 2000 pound animals. It is as intense as anything you could ever imagined.

And then for me, on the fan.

Kind of ownership level, I guess I really didn't have the expectation going into.

This thing that I thought would happen.

And I kind of equate this back.

To our Brian Sanders days when we.

Were either an affiliate with the Rangers.

Or the Astros and going to the playoff games and the World Series games.

And just the incredible highs that you.

Would have after a win and then.

Just the incredible lows that you would have walking out of a ballpark after a loss. And during the PBR finals a few weeks ago that took place right before.

The draft, and us knowing that we.

Were going to take Jose Vitorleme, the worst kept secret in sports in a long time. Jose was fighting for the third, for his back to back world champion.

It's never been done before.

He's fighting through this thing. He's ridden, I think, the first three nights in a row, and we're there on Saturday night, the night before the last performance, and Jose gets on a great bowl.

He's about halfway through the ride and he gets thrown off and he gets stepped on.

And were close enough to see it. And not only was I there, but my wife was there, my daughter was there. And to go from the night before when he had a qualified ride, won the actual individual event that night, and were high fiving and hugging and just talked about the whole night afterwards to the very next night and seeing Jose get stepped on and then basically.

Carried out of the arena, and then.

To find out that an ambulance is.

Coming, rushed him to the hospital, and.

Then he ends up getting four fractured ribs and a partially collapsed. Just, I was like, man, I thought I was going to get away from this. But we got sucked right back into.

It because again, one night, Friday night.

Was the highest of highs. And then Saturday just was just so down. Not because of what it meant to our team, but because we've personally gotten behind Jose and just love him as a person. And my daughter was crushed and just.

We had to kind of walk her through what was going on.

And then as were getting some updates that started to be a little bit more positive, that we had to make sure and let her know that.

Jose was, while he was hurt, he.

Was going to be okay.

And so it's very intense on a lot of levels. There's no doubt about it.

Now, I have a whole set of questions for you here that I want to get to, but where can folks.

Find out more about the Austin Gamblers.

About the PBR team series? Because personally, I am making it my mission to be there August 25 and 26th in the Moody Center. I mean, I have a hard time trying to imagine missing that. I just think it's going to be absolutely electric. But where can folks find out more about that?

Yeah, so the easiest way for us is austingamblers.com.

And then PBR.com has got information not only on the team series, it's got.

Our entire schedule for the year, but then they've also got some really great PBR team series 101. They've got everything that you want to know, and it breaks it down to its most simplest form. And I'll get with you afterwards because I know that you always post show notes. Yes, I'll get with you after that because they just sent out some of that information last week and it's awesome.

It's great information for either fans that.

Have been behind the sport for a.

Long time or fans that are just joining on right now.

We got a training camp coming up next week. Got a couple of preseason events in.

The middle of this month.

And then we open up in Cheyenne at frontier days, July 25 and 26th. Then we're in Kansas City the fourth.

Through the 6 August, and then I.

Think Anaheim, then Nashville. And then that last weekend of August the 26th to the 20 eigth is when we're in Austin.

And it's a total of ten regular season event weekends. And then you do go to every city once.

Yes. So there's eight markets. And so we go to every home market once. And for each one of those home markets, it's a three day event. It's a Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and then.

We open up the season night.

Like I said in Cheyenne, we go to Anaheim just because the LA market, it's a big one for PBR, and then we finish in Vegas.

But it's a team competition.

And so let's just say for the three nights that we're here in Austin or any of the other seven home.

Markets, all eight teams are participating.

But it's basically on Friday night we may go against Nashville, Saturday night against.

Kansas City, and Sunday against Phoenix.

It's our five against their five. There's four different games throughout the night, two on two. And then basically it's a standings, much like basketball, baseball.

Anything else? We could go three and o on the weekend.

Owen?

Three, two and one or one and two.

And the standings are kept throughout the year.

And then at the end of the.

Year, when we get to Vegas, basically they'll be broken out into know the first place team will be going against.

The eight at the beginning. So again, it's exciting to be on the front end of this deal and to see where it's going to go.

Once the competition starts. What are you looking forward to the most when you get to Cheyenne or.

You get to Anaheim?

What is it? What gets you fired up?

Because right now, honestly, Ed, everything. Because right now we're working on every single component that you could ever imagine.

From the on the dirt stuff that.

Really Michael's in charge of to the off the dirt stuff that I'm kind.

Of really overseeing from the business side.

All these different things that we're putting.

Together, from a team side, from a.

League side, from a hospitality side, from a premium side to an f b to a merchandise.

We've got all these plans that are in place that all of us, all.

Eight teams, the league office and all.

Of our league partners are working on.

I can't wait to see how it all comes. Know, I'll be honest with not. I'm glad we're not Kansas City. So Cheyenne is the opening event, but it's part of Frontier day, so it won't be packaged exactly like a regular team event weekend.

But then that following weekend, I guess.

The fourth through the 6th in Kansas City will be the first traditional one. I'm just excited to see how it all comes together. I was nervous about the writers and how excited they were going to be.

Or not going to be and if.

They were going to be skeptical of this, because you never know.

Change is difficult for some people, but.

The response from the writers on draft night was amazing. Right after we drafted Jose and he kind of had to go through his media car wash and do all of.

His interviews, we actually got him over.

To our draft booth. We got him into the actual where.

We were doing everything and he became.

A part of our draft process and it was mean and he was super excited and he was giving us a.

Lot of really good information on other.

Writers and kind of what he saw. And then immediately after we drafted Austin Richardson and he did the same thing.

We got him involved and so we.

Got the writers involved right away. And it was an amazing team building experience, literally and figuratively.

Right. Because the cool thing is, for every.

Guy that came into that booth after.

We drafted them, not only did they know that Michael and our draft team.

Thought a lot of them, but the.

Other writers on the team, because they.

Had a say in who were.

Drafting, these guys were jacked up. They were excited.

We had a team lunch the next.

Day and they wanted to get to work right then.

That's what excites me on paper.

We've got a really good team and.

That'S not just me saying that. I've talked to some of the other.

Gms and the good thing is I.

Think there's going to be a lot of parity. One, because I think the wealth of talent was spread out evenly. There's going to be a lot of injuries this year in our sport, more.

So than any sport in the world, something that we're going to have to deal with. But what I'm most excited about, and.

Hopefully it happens early in the season.

Is after that first event win, to.

Go down and watching our guys hug on the dirt and then going and celebrating with them afterwards. So that's probably what I'm most excited about. And just the competitive nature in watching all the hard work come to fruition.

It'S got to be pretty cool for these young kids. And by the way, they look so dang young. I was looking at the pictures of your team dinner or team lunch.

I'm like, sweet mother.

Are these guys still in high school or what's going on here? And I mean, amazing athletes and so physically and mentally tough. But I watched a couple of video clips from the draft. They were so genuinely fired up and there was a trade that went on. I couldn't even keep track of what was going on when they traded like two and 14 for number three. Whatever, I'm going to get it wrong so I don't even attempt to do it, but I was like, it honestly was an unbelievable level of energy and it's so cool. And I can only imagine for those guys who have been in this individual sport their entire riding life now to be a part of a team and have guys that, yeah, they support me, but these guys legit. Get your back.

Like, it's not just a know, we're not in this for each other, we're in this with each other kind of.

Feel to that point and even a little bit further.

Ed, what I'm super excited about, and.

This is right in your wheelhouse, these.

Are tremendous athletes with amazing determination, dedication, courage, bravery or all those things.

But now they're going to get coaching.

On a daily and weekly basis to the level that they've never received before. There's opportunities for them to go in and talk with different folks from the.

Sport, but they're legitimately not just the guys on our team, but on all eight teams.

Because the eight coaches and assistant coaches for each team are amazing. These are the true legends of the sport. Almost every one of them has been.

A world champion in their career.

They've either founded or been a part.

Of the PBR forever.

But these players now are not only going to get incredible coaching from these leaders and the foundation of the sport, but for guys on our team.

What I'm excited about is because in.

Addition to Michael and our assistant coach.

Jeff Scheer, they're going to get to see how Jose Vitor Leme goes to.

Work and prepares every. You know, I've not been around Tom.

Brady on a personal basis, but you read enough and hear enough to where.

Yeah, Tom has created a brand, but that brand is based around success.

And he goes out and does the.

Work on the field first. And he's a professional.

He's an absolute professional and he wants to win.

And Jose is no different. This is a guy that's back to.

Back champion, got over 700,000 social media followers.

He wants to be the best in the world. Not just for two years, Ed, not just for three years, not for five years, but he wants to be the best the sport has ever seen. And he is truly dedicated to that. For me, I'm excited for our other writers that are uniquely talented to be able to be like, oh, my God, this guy's the best in the world. He could just phone it in if he wants to, but he's going to work every day.

He's planning, he's preparing.

And so I think the impact that.

Jose is going to have on these fellow writers is just as much, if.

Not more than what Michael is going to be able to do for them. Because, again, this is one of their peers and to be able to see.

The work and the dedication and the.

Professionalism that he puts into the sport, I'm really excited for the other guys.

In the team and the younger riders.

Getting coaching, this level of coaching and this depth of coaching for the first time, I mean, I've got to imagine they're just like a sponge soaking it up.

Yeah. Again, I think you look at the.

Nature of these writers, they're incredibly humble. Incredibly.

Again, when you look at a guy.

Like Michael Gaffney, I don't know why you wouldn't want to learn from him. And there's so much to learn from him.

And again, I think that there's going.

To be opportunities to share wisdom not only within our team, but outside the team as well. Because, again, it's such a close knit.

Community from the guys that founded the.

Sport to the guys that are writing today.

So I think on a lot of levels, teams is going to elevate the sport, I think from a financial standpoint.

Not just for the PBR, but for.

All the eight teams.

But I also think financially for the writers.

But I think the writers are just.

Going to get better.

The good ones are going to go.

To great and the great are going to go to exceptional. Because one of the things, when you.

Talk to some of these lifers of the sport, it's almost as if the.

Bulls have outpaced not all the riders, but most of the riders over the last five to ten years.

These bulls are the most athletic specimens you've ever seen.

And so I think it's exciting now for the writers, not just the top five or so, but writers call it ten through 60, to be able to catch up a little bit more.

And so it's a really exciting time.

For the sport, and I'm just glad.

To be a part of it.

How about the opportunity for them to grow as businessmen? I mean, nil, is that going to come into play? Is that something that you discussed? I had a meeting about it this morning. Is it something that's theirs and on the table, discussion wise, is it something that they're cognizant of is like, okay, we'll get to that piece once we get through this part?

No, it's 100%. And I'm not going to go through.

The whole convoluted kind of way that the business is laid out between the PBR and the writers and the team. But, yeah, the nil marketing agreement, whatever.

You want to call it, is going to be a very important component of.

This business model, and specifically for the writers. Some of them have already got some pretty significant and lucrative sponsorship deals, but again, it was just based on them and, or a small handful of agents.

That have been in this space. But again, now you look at the.

Eight ownership groups that have come into this, the relationships that they bring throughout.

The sports and the entertainment world, and.

Then you think about just, I'll give you one example.

Think about who's one of the best.

Sponsorship sales groups in the world. It's NASCAR. Right? And now to bring in a group.

Like Richard Childress Racing, Austin Craven, Austin.

Dillon, who've been crushing that space for so many years, to be able to bring that knowledge not only to their riders, but to our entire league and to be able to elevate these guys.

I think the conversations, we're going to.

Have a lot more conversations, and these riders are going to get a lot.

More doors open to them, not only for this team season, but then when they're competing in the individual PBR season as well.

Now I've got to go back and I have to ask this question. I would be remiss if I didn't ask this question. Two questions. First, what do you miss? I mean, you poured, like you said, half your life into the Ryan family and Ryan Sanders sports entertainment, and you just helped build this incredibly vibrant group of businesses, right? Not just the minor league baseball teams, but the food and beverage, but the turf business, everything else. What do you miss the most? And if you answer the people, that was my guess. Okay, but what is it that you miss in a day to day with those folks?

No, I mean, you just said it because here's it.

When I go back to when I.

Left the baseball field and went to.

The front office right now, granted, it.

Was a very short career after college, but I didn't really miss the game that much.

I definitely didn't miss practice.

I didn't miss first and third drills.

Or anything like that, running foul poles.

But I missed the clubhouse, I missed the camaraderie. Right? That was what I missed. Fortunately for me, I've still got a group text with my TCU guys and a group text with my Creighton baseball.

Guys that we still keep up with. But I think it's the same thing here.

After 24 years of being at Ryan.

Sanders, do I miss going to the ballpark every day?

No, because towards the end of my career there, that wasn't something that I was really doing, because we had great.

Guys and gals running the ball club.

But to be in an office setting, especially, really, for the last twelve years.

With the exact same people, with not.

Only seeing Nolan at the end of the hallway, but his assistant Sherry, and Reed, and Reese and Debbie and Jacqueline.

And to see them every day for.

15 years, were family, a lot of us.

We grew up together.

We were in our 20s when we started and 50s when I left.

So it truly was the people.

And that's not just saying that to be the easy response, because it is. That's what it was about.

And anytime that I've ever left anywhere.

Either round rock the first time to.

Go to corpus or corpus to come back to know, it's the relationships that.

You build that you're not going to get to be around every day anymore.

And so that's really it.

Fortunately for me, I didn't leave the area.

I haven't got as much time to.

Go out and spend and see them as I would like to just because we've been so busy trying to build this thing.

But we still talk a bunch on the phone and the relationship is just.

As strong now as it was then.

So it's just that.

But like I said, it's been so.

Exciting here that, quite honestly, I haven't had a ton of time to think about it now.

And then you transition over to the.

Austin gamblers where you are now.

The thing that blew me away, especially episode 82 and 88, the time we are living in, and the creativity piece that you had already established, how creative of a group you were at Ryan Sanders Sports Entertainment. But then the things you did, and we talked about this to grow through the adversity during that time. But now here you are, something brand new, something just absolutely phenomenal. So much energy. How do you take that creative mindset that you utilize so much and throw it into what you're doing now?

Well, it's interesting because my mindset and creativity is matched, if not beaten, by the folks at the PBR, because that's what they've done for the last 30 years, right? So they've taken one aspect of the rodeo, right, which is bull riding, which is the best part of a rodeo, which is why they save it for last.

And they've taken this thing and they've.

Pumped it on steroids, right? It's this amazing sensory experience with music and pyro and fire and smoke and 2000 pound bulls and amazing athletes.

And just they create this production, this.

Two hour production that is just off the wall awesome.

And now they're even going to take.

That up another notch from a production and creativity element.

For our team series, they're building everything.

Out from new dirt suites down on.

The floor, a brand new sound system.

That they've invested in, a new layout, new everything. So they're not afraid to push the envelope, obviously, with creating this team series when they already had a successful model going. So for me, the creativity treadmill was already going. I just had to jump on and.

Be a part of it and just.

Kind of add some elements from here.

And as it relates to other lessons that we've learned, I think the great thing for me with COVID was that.

You can go to work and plan, and there's a chance that it might.

Work, but there's a good chance that it's not.

And just all the work that you put into something is going to get thrown up and thrown in the trash.

Right? But to not get upset about it.

And to not dwell on it and just know that it just didn't work. Whereas maybe younger, when I was younger in my career, I would have got hung up in the axle a little bit. But now going through COVID, being 50 years old, just not getting as upset.

About stuff when it just doesn't work out. And again, we're launching a brand new.

Team in a brand new league. There's been a lot of times over the last three months where we'll have.

Conversations either internally as a team or with the league or with other teams.

We're moving down the path in one.

Direction one day, and a week later.

Or sometimes a day later, guess what? We're moving a different direction because we just got some new information. I do think one, being older, but I do think COVID helped prepare me.

A little bit to handle those situations a little bit better.

Last question. You may transition and change and learning through failure seem so simple and so easy. I know it's not. That's the outside looking, right? Like, you go through the struggle. But senior executives listen to the podcast, love what you had to say, and they're looking like, what was the decision making process that JJ went through after devoting half his life to an amazing organization, being very happy where he was, knowing there were still great days ahead, and identifying a new opportunity that involved some risk, something new, something completely different, something outside of his comfort zone, and potentially his knowledge bandwidth in terms of the sport itself, and to be willing to bet on yourself again, no pun intended.

Okay, Austin gamblers.

To be willing to bet on yourself.

Though, and take that leap.

I mean, you talked about your wife, and you had a meeting, planning your retirement 60 to 62, and all of a sudden, you get the phone call in January, and it's out the window. What was that like, the conversation with yourself, with your wife, with Reed Ryan, et cetera? How did that process play out, and what advice would you give?

Well, it was one of those things.

To where, as we talked about, it wasn't something that were seeking out at the time. It was the complete opposite.

We were planning the other direction.

Right.

And so completely happy had been there for 24, and honestly, I'd come up with the idea of ten more years.

Because that would be 34 years with the Ryans, and no one's number is 34, right? So I couldn't think of a better year to walk out.

Right. But it just happened for me.

There's probably a couple of things in kind of how I came about the decision to ultimately leave and take this new opportunity.

One was I felt like I needed to make the decision quickly because it.

Weighed too much on me personally and.

Emotionally, and I didn't want that to affect my job, my current job. And then two, out of respect for this new organization, they really should have.

Had hired somebody like a month before, and so this thing didn't need to get drugged out.

And so, fortunately, I wanted to move.

Quickly, and they did, too.

And so a lot of this stuff.

Happened quickly, and I didn't get a chance to just kind of sit and dwell on it. We really had to act quickly, work.

Quickly, think quickly, and so it was.

A lot of just heart to hearts with my wife.

And again, I try to break things down.

Very simple, Ed, because my mind is fairly simple.

But this goes back to a decision of when I was at Creighton and.

I'd been there for three years, had.

Just gotten, I think, all conference in the tournament team in 93, and then.

Again met Reed Ryan and had the opportunity to transfer to TCU. And so I basically got the old.

Yellow sheet of legal paper out, put.

The pros one side and the cons on the other, and just weighed it all out. And so, similarly, I kind of did the same thing again and really looked.

At take the emotion out of it.

What does this thing look like for me after being at Ryan Sanders for 24 years? We were able to do some amazing.

Things, and there's still some amazing things.

That that organization is going to do. I just didn't know me personally how soon that was going to happen and or what my role may or may.

Not be in those.

I love that organization. I helped grow it.

I was employee one or two right after Reed.

It was my life. And so the one thing I didn't want to do is I didn't want to leave it in a bad situation. For me, there was a gigantic comfort because Reed, after his stint with the Astros, had come back and had taken.

Over the CEO role of Ryan Sanders. And so for me at that know, there really wasn't a guilt because the.

Founder of the organization was back. The energy of the organization, the heartbeat.

Of the organization was back. So if he wouldn't have been there.

It would have been a different situation, quite honestly.

But with him being there, I really.

Felt like they had all the horsepower that they needed and all the bandwidth.

That they needed to continue to keep going and grow.

So there wasn't a guilt factor there. So then it came back to me like, what's best for me and really what's best for my family.

And so for us.

And we talked about this, I think, in one or both the podcast. I love to build things.

I love to create things.

I love challenges. I love creating solutions. And what possible environment could better than to not only be a part.

Of building a brand new team, but.

Alongside building a brand new league and all the challenges and things that come.

Along with those in a wildly exciting sport. And then thirdly, not having to move. A lot of times, executives, I think, get amazing opportunities, but you get that.

Decision of where you've got to move.

And you may not be able to.

Because your spouse has a fantastic job that doesn't transition to another community or for guys like you and I who.

Got kiddos in school and we want.

To take them out of that neighborhood, that community, that village that we've helped create with them.

And so for me, again, I didn't.

Have the guilt of leaving my current.

Employer in a bad spot and I didn't have the decision of having to move my family.

And so again, it just got clearer and clearer for me. And then the opportunity to work for.

A family like Egon and Abby Durbin.

Texans originally, but now out in northern.

California, just an amazing success story.

And what they've been doing in the.

Sports and entertainment field, what they were.

Wanting to do not only with the gamblers, but beyond the gamblers and the opportunity beyond this, getting to meet their team, the folks from the home office and their advisors that surround them. So I took all that information and then I went down and I asked.

Breed to have a meeting and I sat down with him and said, listen.

Man, you're the only guy that I.

Know that left something that you helped.

Found for a potential better opportunity or different opportunity. And I walked him through everything, and.

He was beyond being a friend or.

Beyond being my boss at the time and being a mentor. He was just a great friend and.

Walked me through all the positives, all the negatives, the questions to ask, and just made me feel much more comfortable.

And when I continued that process, and.

It was a quick process, it became.

Pretty clear, pretty quick that this is.

Going to be a great opportunity for me. Again, there's risk involved, right?

I more than likely probably could have stayed with Ryan Sanders for ten years. And so who knows? This is a new league, this is a new team, and we've seen what's.

Happened with the AFL, the XFL.

There's been a lot of recent examples of teams and leagues that have not worked, and so there's a definite risk.

But when weighed everything together, we just felt like the opportunity to stay.

In Austin, be a part of building.

Not only a brand and a team.

Franchise and a league. And then the opportunity with the Durban family, beyond potentially just what the Gamblers.

May hold, it just became the right decision for us.

Well, JJ, I am genuinely thrilled for you, excited for you. I can't wait to see what the future holds. Thank you. I know you're being pulled in a million directions. For you to take the time for a third time again, ratings went up, not down. Okay, we're trending in the right direction. But JJ, thanks, man. I really, truly appreciate you.

And Ed, I can't thank you enough. You've been a great friend and gotten to know a lot of different people throughout the process since we've met. And I'm excited because I'm going to be sending you a lot of different folks in the PBR because there's some.

Really just amazingly smart people that I.

Think are going to be some great interviews for you. So we're excited. We'll continue to follow the Athletics of.

Business podcast and we'll stay in touch.

Perfect. Thanks, JJ.

Thank you for listening to the Athletics of business. Be sure to give us a rating and review so we how we're doing. For more information about the show, visit theathleticsofbusiness.com. Now get out there. Think, act and execute at the highest level to unleash your greatness.