Coaching and Shaping the Lives of Young Athletes, with John O’Sullivan

Welcome to the Athletics of Business, a podcast about how the traits and behaviors of elite athletes and remarkable business leaders frequently intersect. The real stories and hard lessons to help you level up your leadership and performance. Now your host, Ed Molitor. Welcome back to another episode of the Athletics of Business podcast. I am your host and CEO of the Molitor Group, Ed Molitor and I could not be more fired up to bring you today's special guest, John o'. Sullivan. I've known John for a few years now. When I first launched a Molitor group, I was really intentional about having as many conversations as I possibly could have with folks who content. I love well respected leaders, whether they are in the athletic world, whether they're in the business world. And it was a lot of fun connecting and getting to know some great people.

And every now and then you'll have a conversation with someone and say you have a 20 minute time slot and you'll find yourself talking for 60 minutes. And when you hang up or you disconnect, you think to yourself, man, that is someone that what they say and what they do really resonates with me. Ton of respect. Really, really enjoyed myself, really like that person. I want to stay in touch. And that was John. I mean John just, he had it and it was just, it's been phenomenal. Getting to know him and to finally have him on the podcast as a guest is very humbling and you're going to enjoy it. Now let me give you one piece of advice or a suggestion.

I should say listen all the way till the end because this is a little bit longer conversation and I mean longer in duration. There really are no flat moments, there's really no dips. John just keeps saying some amazing things because we're going to dive into his new book Every Moment Matters. How the world's best coaches inspire their athletes and build championship teams. I'll get back to that in a second.

But even at the end of the conversation I sort of make a pivot and I asked John a couple questions coming from me as a father of a seven year old and a five year old who, you know, their mom was a great athlete, their dad pretended to be a good athlete and they love sports, you know, they love karate, they love soccer, they love basketball, they love, I mean anything, they just love it. And I've been around obviously athletics my whole life and parents, my whole life, parents of athletes. And John is the person to talk to about youth sports, the value of coaches, the significance of coaches in Their role, which is exactly what his book's about. Right. And also the parents. I mean, that's another angle. So there's something in this podcast for everybody, regardless of your field endeavors.

Just some amazing leadership lessons, both for youth sports. But I'm telling you, it translates directly into the business world. And as you listen, you won't be able to help but smile when you realize how it translates. Before, I guess before I get into what we talk about, let's talk more about who John is and what he does, what the great work is he does and has done. And John is an internationally known TEDx speaker and the founder of the Changing the Game project, which he started in 2012. He is the author of two number one best selling books and a leading youth sports blogger. Great blog. I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that this third book is going to skyrocket to a number one best selling book. I was blessed.

John provided me a copy in a Word document, unedited copy of the book before it went to print. And I got to read it and I'm going to tell you, I couldn't put it down. And my kids were making fun of me because when they see me read a book, they're normally they're used to a book cover, a hardcover book, or on my tablet, my Kindle, my iPad, whatever. And here I am holding 300 and something pages of a Word document. And I mean, I'm just, you know, treating it like it's gold. Which it is. Okay, now back to who John is. John is also the host of the Way of Champions podcast, one of the top rated podcasts in the world for coaches. Let me say it again. Host of the Way of Champions podcast. Phenomenal.

One of the top rated podcasts in the world for coaches. He is a former collegiate and professional soccer player and has coached for over 20 years on the youth, high school and college level. John has consulted with US Olympic Committee, US Soccer, USA Football, USA Lacrosse, USA Swimming, Ireland Rugby, Aussie Rules Football, and many more. John is also a national advisory board member for the Positive Coaching alliance and the national association for Physical Literacy. We're going to get into again. The book Every Moment Matters. How the World's Best Coaches Inspire Their athletes. Inspire their athletes, excuse me, and build championship teams. And it's really interesting how the book is broken down and John's going to get into who and what inspired him to break it down into these four sections, these four areas, and those four are number one, why do I coach?

Number two, how do I coach? Number three, how does it feel to be coached by me? I mean, that's big time right there. How does it feel to be coached by me? And number four, how do I define success? John shares two incredible stories about Steve Kerr. John recently had Steve Kerr on his podcast. Unbelievable, unbelievable interview. And there's a great story about Steve and his time with Pete Carroll and some of the things Pete Carroll shared with him and taught him and where that led Steve as a. As a head coach to, you know, certain things that led Steve to develop. We get into why self awareness is so critical in coaching youth sports teams, and it really, it goes back to the title, right? Every moment matters. And it also. He also jumps into why self awareness is so critical.

When you lead in business, you know, segueing from the self awareness is to be a better coach, be a better you, to be a better leader, be a better you. And here's one I love this next thing we talk about, just a great point in the conversation. You coach a person, not a sport. Then John shares a story about a turning point in his life when he started to realize that he needed to move from being a transactional coach to a transformational coach. Because John and I share some conversation wrapped around the fact when were young coaches, it was always about. It was about winning, it was about producing successful players and successful teams, and it was a very transactional mindset. A lot of it had to do with the way were coached at certain levels.

And then John jumps into how to create powerful, meaningful moments for your people and your athletes. And he shares a story of how he did it and how he still does that with new team members, again, I cannot urge you enough, encourage you enough to listen all the way through, because when he talks about the role of parents in youth sports and what their role and why they need to make sure they are racing towards the right finish line. Let me. Let me repeat that because this is a great part and this is right at the end. Be sure that you are racing toward the right finish line. It's. It's John o', Sullivan, let me tell you, is an absolute home run guest. Enjoy my conversation with them, John.

You know, one of the things I work with my clients a lot on is focusing not so much on what keeps them up at night, but what gets them up in the morning. Let me tell you something. When I woke up this morning, the very first thing I thought of was the fact that I was going to an unbelievable podcast episode with you. So thank you so much for joining us on the athletics business podcast today.

That's high praise. I hope that this lives up to expectations, but most of your and my conversations do. So I'm really excited to be here.

Well, let's jump into your journey and how, you know, what brought you to where you are today.

So I was like you. I got into coaching after I stopped playing and I coached high school. I coached four years as an assistant coach on the Division 1 level in soccer. I then coached youth for many years in Michigan and Oregon. And in 2012, after a long time of doing this and running organizations, I was really kind of burnt out with not the coaching. I love the kids, but everything else that was happening in coaching. Sort of the parents that were driving me crazy, some of the other coaches who were working for me that were just, they didn't understand what it meant to be a coach and how influential they were. And I was talking to my colleagues in coaching and they were all dealing with the same thing.

So I sort of said, wow, if everyone has the same issues, then boy, maybe this is an opportunity to influence a few more people than just my local club. And so I decided to research and write a book, which is the book Changing the Game. And that was on sort of the mental state of athletes. So what's going on in a couple inches between your ears? Because if we get that part right and we strip away the interference in there, people can play their best. And then it morphed into a blog. It went to a TED Talk. Once the blog became really popular, the TED Talk became very popular. And then two and a half years ago, we started our own podcast called Way of Champions. And that's gone really well. We've had multiple World cup winners.

We've had people like Steve Kerr on the podcast. We've had probably coaches have won a hundred NCAA titles in a variety of sports psychologists, skill acquisition experts, things like that. And yeah, and then we do a ton of speaking. So my workshop schedule takes me all over the world from my next trip goes to Beijing and Sydney, and then my one right before Christmas goes to Italy. And then I get some time off.

Welcome time off, too.

Welcome time off. Because obviously launched in this new book, which we're going to talk about, I think I'll need some time to pour into that as well.

Now, before we get into the new book, let's go back to the TED Talk, because before you and I ever had an opportunity to connect, the first time I watched the TED Talk and you talk about hitting a home run, I Mean, can you sort of fill in our listeners on what the TED Talk was about obviously evolved from the book changing, you know, your first book. But can you kind of describe the message in that TED Talk? I loved it.

The message, basically the takeaway was a very simple concept that I learned from a guy named Bruce Brown, who's very influential in my life as I started Changing the Game project. But it's a very old message. I think it's in the Bible, right? And it's basically, tell your kids I love watching you play. And as parents, as coaches, if we can convey this idea that, you know, I love watching you compete, I'm honored with the fact that you're out there, my love for you is unconditional based upon whether we win or lose, then people are going to come back, they're going to play more, they're not going to drop out of sports like so many kids do. And so that's what the message was. And it seems to have resonated.

You know, it's funny putting together a TED Talk, you know, I probably put 100 hours into a 14 minute talk and up until two weeks out, I still hadn't really coalesced around that one message. And I sent it off to my then 80 year old mom and she said, wow, that was nice, but I don't know what you're talking about. And about two weeks out, 10 days out, I really consolidated around this idea of I love watching you play. And I sent it out to 10 people and I said, don't give me feedback on the material, just tell me what's my idea worth sharing. Everyone came back with those, you know, I love watching you play. I'm like, great, I got it right. There's a message.

And still to this day I meet people who are like, you're the I love watching you play guy there. They don't know what my name is, but they sell the TED Talk.

Isn't that funny how that works out? But what a powerful message that was. And you know, our children are only five and seven, but I couldn't wait for that first sporting event so I could use that line on him, you know, and it's, but it's true when you see their eyes light up and even if you just watch them practice. But so when did you first realize, when you talk about this in a TED Talk and in your blogs and things of that nature. But when did you first realize the significance of the alarming rate at which kids were Dropping out of sports and the impact that was having and really the reasons why.

Yeah, I mean, I think in researching the book, and I think anecdotally I knew it from running organizations and sort of after middle school, as kids went to high school, they leave sports for a variety of reasons. Right. It could be tougher academic load, they get jobs, they consolidate around one sport. But when you see all the kids who had dropped out before then, many of whom didn't have a great experience, you're thinking, wow, this isn't a good thing. And so as I did the research and found out that kids who quit sports because they're injured or they're burnt out by adolescence, the research shows that they actually quit all sports forever. They don't come back to anything. It's not like they quit basketball and switch to soccer.

It's usually they quit sport and then they have so many issues by not being active throughout their life with health and well being and whether they even go to college and drugs and alcohol and all this sort of stuff, it really kind of hit home for me that this is not, you know, I think the next great social movement in the United States. I mean, we've had, you know, we have the environmental movement, we've had civil rights, we've had, you know, women's rights, all this. I mean, I really think the next great social movement's a wellness movement. We are on an unsustainable path with how we eat and our lack of activity and our lack of movement. And it's unsustainable, it's unaffordable.

Whether you think we should have socialized healthcare or not, the fact is most countries that do recognize that if they were where the United States is going to be is trending in 10 years, they'd all go bankrupt. And so what does that mean? And I think sport is a big part of this wellness movement. If we can give young children positive sport experiences, they're going to stick with it and at least become runners and cyclists and swimmers later on in their lives. So, yeah, that's the bigger message, I think that comes out of it.

So as you, I want to lead into the new book and I really want to dive into that because it's. And thank you for giving me a sneak peek into it because it's just an unbelievable piece of work. As this all evolved, how did this lead into your most recent book?

Well, the book Every Moment Matters, which is the new one, has been bouncing around in my head for a long time. And since I started changing the Game Project. In the beginning, I went out and just did parent education talks. And then I realized that, number one, I'm a. And I love coaching and coaches. You talk to a parent, they influence two or three kids. You talk to a coach, they might influence 30 or 50 kids. And so we could make a bigger difference if we're really helping coaches understand what do kids want from you as a coach, how you can deliver that effectively. And in fact, this doesn't make you less competitive. It actually makes you more competitive.

So the idea had been bouncing around, and then instead of writing the book, I decided to start the Way It Champions podcast, which was the best decision ever, because then for this book, I mean, like I said, we've been able to interview so many incredible people that they're all weaved throughout this book. So all the chapters start with some incredible coaching stories or sport development stories of all levels, right? From professional coaches to championship college coaches to youth coaches. And I think it really makes the book kind of approachable for coaches of what, doesn't matter what age athletes you're coaching.

Well, and I love how you have the book broken down into four sections, and the first section being, why do I coach? The second, how do I coach? The third? And I love this one, how does it feel to be coached by me? And then the fourth one, how do I define success? Can you talk about how you came about setting the book up that way?

Well, I'll give full credit to Joe Ehrman, the amazing former NFL player who runs the Inside out initiative, and his book Inside Out Coaching poses those questions. Right? And that was really influential for me many years ago when I read that book, especially, like you said, this third question of what does it feel like to be coached by me? And I think just like that resonated with you, that resonates with tons of the coaches that we talk to at our workshops. They're just stunned. You know, I'm like, have you ever considered this? And most haven't. And I know I didn't consider that for many years, right? I thought I was just this transmitter of information. Who cares what you feel like, Just listen to the information.

But really, when you start diving into that, you get to this point of like, man, if I am really intentional about what it feels like to come to work here every day, not work, but to come play for me every day, if I'm intentional about what a kid feels like while they're at practice, when they leave practice after a game, whether it's good or bad, then they're going to be more open to learn from me. They're going to learn quicker, and they're going to want to come back. And so I'm. I've coached long enough to realize, especially on the youth level, that, you know, people have other loves and passions and interests.

And so if I'm coaching a kid in soccer and they decide that they want to be, you know, that they're transitioning to cross country running or, you know, where I live, Nordic skiing or things like that, they might leave soccer. That's okay. But I want them going, God, this is the hardest decision I've ever had to make. Not going, oh, yeah, I'm out of soccer. Coach is an idiot.

You know, you talk a little bit about that in the book, and you say something in the book that just hit me right over the head because it was me when I was in my younger twenties coaching major college basketball. It was a transactional. You know, I thought the way to make a big impact on a person's life was to help them reach your potential. Right. And we had good intentions, but there was a piece of the puzzle that was. That was not missing. It was there, but we didn't get how significant it was back then. When did you first realize that, like, how intentionally you had to be about what you talk about inside this book?

Yeah, I mean, I share a story, which was kind of an origin story in the book. And this was back when I was probably same age as you, sort of mid to late 20s, and was coaching college soccer at the University of Vermont. And one of the first kids I'd ever coached, he was a high school player in North Carolina, called me and he was applying to med school at Vermont. And he just said, hey, I'm going to come up there. I'd love to see you. When I'm there checking out the place, I'm like, oh, that's great. And he said, you know, coach, I just want you to know that, you know, doing your MCATs is really hard and college was really tough and said, you know, when I.

Whenever I want to give up, whenever I'm in the weight room and I want to, you know, quit on a set, I think of you and I see you and I hear you telling me, is that the best you got? You sure you can't finish this? Can't you do a little bit more? And he said, I just want to say thank you. And I was like. I was stunned. I was. I hung up the phone, I told the coach that I was working with that story. He's like, that's great. I'm like, that's not great, that's terrible. I'm like, because, like, I got along great with that kid, right? I'm like, but what are all the kids who that message didn't come across or I told them to go take up kayaking or something. Like what? You know, they must hate me.

And that's, I'm not going to claim that in that moment everything changed, right. This isn't a movie, but it certainly started me on this path of like, wow. People remember what I say, people remember what I did, right? In that moment of anger or emotion. Something that I say could stick with a person the rest of their life. I better be careful about that.

Every moment matters.

Every moment matters. Yeah, there you go.

And that's a great segue though because you know, when we talk about the athletics of business and you know, what makes you high performing teams and elite athletes so successful are key to success in business. And right now we're talking about this paradigm shift. Instead of viewing yourself as a manager or boss, viewing yourself as a coach. And I think people get frustrated because they truly want to develop into what you and I see the successful and great coaches being in athletics. Right. The things that we're talking about. But you just said it's an origin, it's not something that happens, you know, happens overnight. And I would love to go and start to talk about, you know, how do you get to that, you know, where do you start? Why do I coach?

And talk about how that evolves and how you start with the inner self.

Well, it's great as a Nietzsche quote, right? He who has a strong why can survive anyhow. Right. And so I really think that a lot of coaches, and this was actually a conversation that I had with Joe Ehrman on our podcast was he said, I think a lot of coaches burn out or leaders burn out just because they lose touch with their, why they lose touch with their purpose. And why do I do this? And for most people in my world of sports coaching, you're not doing it for the money. Yeah, sure, College basketball and professional basketball and football and a couple sports. Yeah, that's the living. But you know, if you're coaching your local 12 year old basketball team, you know, even if you're making a living at it, this is not life changing money by any stretch.

So getting really clear with, you know, I think number one, you know, why am I here? Why do I coach? What is the real purpose of this is one of the most important things, being self aware. So that when things happen around you're not reacting but you're responding because you've trained yourself to respond well in these public, emotional situations with young, impressionable people. And then also I think for your teams or the groups that you're coaching, what's there, Right. Like having a higher purpose than winning for a team often leads to the most successful teams as well. Right.

And I think if we're only focused on did we win, even though that's how we might be judged as coaches, especially on a higher level, we get ourselves in trouble, we get ourselves chasing something that a lot of times we don't have a lot of control over. But if we have sort of a higher purpose than winning that man, we are going to be the best practicing team and we are going to love each other like a family. And this is going to be the strongest, most tight knit group you've ever been around. And we're going to practice like crazy and we're going to honor, you know, a person or a thing or God or whatever we do in the way that we play.

And every time we step on the field, it's going to be abundantly evident to everyone we play against how much we love each other and how hard we work. Then you're going to win a hell of a lot of games. And I think whether you're coaching a sports team or you're working with a business team, people are people, right. And when they have a strong why, you'll accomplish a lot of stuff well.

And I think when you take that why and you combine and I love what you talk about where you coach a person, not a sport. Right. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Yeah. And whenever you're in a position of leadership over another person, right. You coach a person, not a sport, you coach, you know, you lead a person, not a salesman, you know, and it's like when you get deep down into what drives him or her, what motivates them, what are their greatest fears, what are their greatest loves, and you do your best to connect with them as a human being, then they're going to perform their best in sport. But if you just treat it as one size fits all, it doesn't mean it doesn't work at all. But on, you know, on a scale of like least effective to most effective, for many people you'll be very ineffective and for some you'll be very effective.

But if you try to do your best to communicate the way each person wants to be communicated with and things like that, you're going to get the most out of the most people possible.

And, you know, I think one of the best at doing that in professional sports. And I know, you know, who I'm going to say is Steve Kerr. Love the story, the couple stories in the book. Loved his podcast interview that you guys did. Unbelievable. Can you share a little bit of the insight? You know, I love. I love the things that Pete Carroll told Steve and how this relates to, you know, what you put in the book and exactly what we're talking about. Sure.

So I think there's two things that really resonate with me that fit into what we're talking about now. And I think the first one, before we go to the Pete Carroll side of things, one of the things Steve talked about is, obviously, he had an incredibly successful career as a player at Arizona, with the Bulls, with the spurs, won five NBA championships as a player. But he's like, for most of my career, I was coming off the bench, he said. So I'm very intentional about not just how I treat my starters, but how do I treat the guys coming off the bench. And he learned a lot about that from Pop and from Phil Jackson and things like that. But one of the things that he talked about, he said, as a coach, I have to know what each person needs.

He says, so for Steph Curry, the biggest thing for Steph Curricul is the amount of drain on his time. Everyone wants Steph for something. And so my job as Steph's coach is to create this bubble where he can just be a basketball player, where he can be himself, where it's all those outside distractions are gone, and he can just do what he loves the most. He said, for the 14th guy on my bench, his biggest concern is this my last contract? Am I going to be out of the league? What happens to me if I don't have basketball in my life next year? And he's like, that's a very different. That person needs something very different from me than Steph Curry. And if I give him what I give Steph, I'm not helping him at all.

And so that really, I think, resonates with me, whether you're coaching pros or whether you're coaching kids.

Right.

They all need something. And your best player is going to need something a little bit different than your kid who maybe hasn't grown yet, who's maybe struggling a bit, things like that. So that. That really resonated with me.

I thought that was unbelievable. And the way Steve articulates that is awesome. And you think about it goes to what, in order to be able to do that as a coach, you have to have an incredible level of self awareness. Right. Because showing your team that you value them on an individual basis, you have to be different towards each person. And that level of self awareness. Before we get to the Pete Carroll story, can we tie that back into the why do I coach and the self awareness and how plays into being a competitive advantage?

Yeah, for sure. I mean, again, I think anyone would say it's a competitive advantage if most of the people on your team are performing at or near their potential. Right. And if people are missing. Right. If you only got six out of your 14, you're not going to be as good of a team as you're capable of being. And so if your why as a coach, and again, I think it's especially important if you're working with children.

Or.

Young adults, is if your why is around, hey, my why is to serve as many of these athletes as I possibly can and use sport as a vehicle to teach character and life lessons and, you know, help them get to a place they'd never been before and might not get to on their own. That's a pretty strong. That's a pretty strong Y. That also leads to far more W's than L's on your. On your record as well.

And if you in. The thing about it is, if you're intentional about that every day consistently. Right. The level of trust that builds with your team is amazing. Oh, yeah.

The level of trust is great because players see right through it when you're not authentic, and they see right through it when you're not in it for them. And if you're not in it for them, then they're not going to be all in for you.

Right.

Never, I think never.

Great segue into the Pete Carroll story because we start talking now about driving a culture. Right. Like, what's the most important thing as a coach? So I'm going to completely get out of your way when you tell this story.

Well, this is a great story, and I had first seen the story. Pete. Sorry. Steve works closely with my podcast co host Jerry lynch for a number of years. Jerry wrote a book 20 plus years ago called Thinking Body Dancing Mind that Phil Jackson made all the Bulls read. And so Jerry and him have been very close. And he wrote a forward for Jerry's book where he talked about this story. And so we had him on the podcast And I'm like, you got to tell this story because it really hit home for me. And so basically, when he got the warriors job, you know, he's doing all the X's and O's and the tactical stuff, and he got to meet a lot of coaches, and his agent said, you got to go meet Pete Carroll.

You got to go see how he does things in Seattle. And so this was right after they had won the super bowl and Steve went up for preseason and he sat in the huddles and he was part of the team meetings, and he just watched how they did everything. And then one night, Pete calls him into his office and says, hey, Steve, you know, how are you going to coach your team? And Steve's like, you mean, like, what offense are we going to run? What defense? And Pete's like, no, no. Like, that's. That's easy. You've been around the game your whole life. That stuff's easy. He goes, what's it going to feel like when people come to work? What's it going to feel like to be part of your team? What matters most to you that's coming out in your coaching?

And Steve was like, I haven't really thought about that before. So Pete Carroll sent him home to his hotel that night with a homework assignment of, you know, come up with the 10 most important things to you and then really distill it down to three or four, right? What's it going to feel like? What matters most to you that's authentically you? Steve Kerr. Not what matters to Pete Carroll, not what matters to John Wooden, not what matters to anyone else. It's got to be what matters to you. So Steve really did some great soul searching and came with the four core tenants, core values of the Warriors. The first, which I love, which was joy, right? Like, love what you're doing. And I look around so many youth sports fields and I see no joy.

I'm like, God, if the warriors can have joy, your 12 year olds should have joy at the top of it, too. And it's certainly something that's always been important to me that kids got to love this and want to come back. You know, the competitiveness, obviously, because they're a professional basketball team, mindfulness, because that's been important to Steve as a player. So being thoughtful and aware and mentally prepared and then. And then, you know, compassion, right? Love each other. This is a family. We got to love each other. We got to trust each other. And so, you know, a great deal of the Warrior success really came out of that being what was evident and what is evident every single day.

A big part of why Kevin Durant went to the warriors was he's like, because that's a group that I want to be a part of.

Right.

For a while. And. Yeah, yeah.

And you know what? I love what Pete said to him. I said, okay, Steve, that's great. I love how he said, okay, you're not. Now go back to your hotel and sit down and really narrow those down. And then when he came back and he said, the joy, the mindfulness, the compassion and competitiveness, he said, that's great. Now you have to make sure that you live that out every single day in your practices, in your meetings and everything. And I'm going to bounce to the athletics of business mindset. I mean, you think about that in the business setting. You know, Steve Kerr p. Told him to, you know, what will your day look like? Think about if you do that in business. What will practice feel like?

What will the office feel like every single day when you come, Are you intentional about the environment you create for your people to succeed? And then what are the players going to feel like when they walk into your building? What are your. What's your team going to feel like when you walk into the building? And I just. I just love that. And I really love. Because now when you sit back and you look at the run that Steve's had at Golden State, man, if he hasn't lived it, I don't know who has.

No, exactly. And all his coaches and, you know, Luke Walton and, you know, other people. So it's like, it's not, you know, it's really, you know, important that. And, I mean, let's face it, you know, during this run as well, Steve had some health issues and had to step out, and it kept going. Now, did he have great players? Yeah. Is this season going to be a struggle because of injuries and stuff? Yeah, probably. But I also know that he's working really hard on building those values and building, you know, the family. So that when people come back from injury or next season, I think you. I think you'll see them only getting better and better because, again, sometimes you have a talent deficit. You can't really do anything about that.

Right.

But I think he'll still get the most out of the group that he has. But he's also going to lay the groundwork for, I think, another run next year when Steph Curry comes back and Klay Thompson comes back and, you know,

Well, what you love about him. Yeah. And what you love about him is there's no. He embraces reality. This is. You know, he accepts it. Doesn't settle for it, but he accepts it. And this is. And that's what he communicates. Everybody. It's gonna be a long year, and we know that, and we're gonna coach it. So we keep teaching and we keep growing. And, you know, one of the things I heard him say in your podcast, that just. I mean, I almost ran to the person in front of me when I was listening to it. He talks about. He tries to have authority mixed in with humanity. And when you have that and the ability to make it goes back to what you talked about, the number one guy and the number 14 guy.

When you have that, you create this incredible ability to make each one of your team members feel valued. Can you talk about how important that is?

Yeah, for sure. I think I put a line in the book there. How do you make everybody feel invaluable without being the most valuable?

Right?

And I think that's something that great leaders do. They make sure everyone feels like they have a role that the team would not be complete without them. And you do that by not just being an X's and O's or a sales figure person. You do that by being a human being and connecting with them and knowing who their kids are and knowing what's going on in their lives. And, you know, I do this as a youth coach because I believe that lots of people, you know, my kids do other sports and have other things in their lives. And so when I have a kid who misses a game because, you know, I had a girl who was a competitive Irish dancer, right? And I did. I don't go, how could you miss our game? I'm like, go do it. Right.

Like, what an awesome thing. And the first time I see her afterwards, my first question at practice is, hey, how'd the competition go? How'd you do? Tell me about it, right? And that's not fake, that's real. Because I care, because I know that's important to her, right? And how many of those kids show up going, God, I hope coach doesn't yell at me because I missed the game this weekend or I missed practice yesterday. And so I think that's humanity. But yet there's also respect and there's authority because I know what I'm talking about. I have the X's and O's. I have the knowledge, but then I have the connection piece and the believability piece and the vulnerability piece, which matters a Lot too.

And I want to talk about that. You know, I. We talk a lot about authentic and resilient leadership. And I like to break authenticity down into honesty, integrity and vulnerability. And there's so much. People used to think you become powerless by being vulnerable. I believe you become more powerful, right? And you show that you trust the person, that you're making yourself vulnerable. You show that you trust their experiences and their skills, and you show that you trust them and you value them because you're making yourself vulnerable to them. But how do you do that in sports, in new sports, high school sports, college sports? Just talk a little bit about the power behind making yourself vulnerable.

I mean, certainly I was like you as a young coach. I thought I was a sign of weakness, right? Like, oh, my God, if I admit that I'm wrong, I must be an idiot. And my coaches will. My players will walk all over me. But what I've certainly realized recently is that being vulnerable is one of the most powerful things. Admitting when I'm wrong. Because let's face it, when I'm coaching 13 year olds, 12 year olds, which is what I do these days mostly, if they aren't doing something well in the game, it's probably not their fault. It's probably because I haven't covered it enough in practice. So it really is my fault. And I think as a young coach, I always thought that if I taught it meant they learned it. And that's really two very different things.

So I think just being humble and admitting that you don't have all the right answers and drawing the answers out of your athletes, rather than you being just the one who has all the answers, like that is absolutely huge. And then when things don't go well, be like, you know what? That's on me. And if you think about this, right, if you come into a meeting, right, and you're meeting with your basketball team and you come in and you say, you know, our guards aren't defending or you're not pressing well. Well, the first thing they're gonna, if you blame them, then they're gonna blame the next people, and then they're gonna blame the next people. And then no one takes any accountability or responsibility. But if you come in and say, all right, you know what?

I didn't prepare us well enough for how they're playing. That's on me. Here's how we're going to fix it. Then your guards are like, yeah, and we could do this. And then your center is like, yeah, and if I front this guy, then we can do this, right? And now everyone says, hey, let me add to the solution. And I think oftentimes that starts with the coach being vulnerable or leader being vulnerable and saying, well, maybe I don't have all the answers here, but I'm certainly going to work my tail off to get them.

So how does that tie back into. Because we talk about this, the retention piece of it, right? The retain. Retaining the athletes in youth sports, retaining the college athletes and they're not transferring them, not leaving them, not quitting, retaining people in the business world. How does that whole. The vulnerability, the collaboration and being part of the solution, not part of the problem, how does that add towards your retention?

Yeah, one of the things that I've added to my coaching toolbox recently, and I got this idea from my friend Lynn Ketch Mark, and she was a Hall of fame water polo coach and player and collegiate Division 1 swimming coach and diving coach. And she says, what I started asking later in my career was, what did I miss today? This is something that I have done a lot of that at the end of practice, if I take a moment and think, what did I miss today that I could tidy up a little bit with a quick note, right? And so, you know what? Maybe it was super hard on that kid, or, hey, I wanted to pull, you know, this kid aside and say, man, you know what? Like, I notice how hard you're working. It's making a difference, right?

I know you're frustrated because you're not playing as much, or I know you didn't score and you missed those chances. But you know what? You've been working hard and you put yourself in that position, keep working. And oftentimes in practice, when we have lots of people out there and we're getting across our message, we miss those moments. And so what I've been very intentional about is following up with an email or I work with young kids, so I don't text them, but if I was a college coach, it would just be a text. Hey, when I said that to you today, I don't think it came out the right way. Here's what I really meant to say, and I appreciate all you've done. And the kid who gets that is like, damn, coach noticed that he upset me, right?

And he said, sorry, how does that hurt you as a coach? Like, I don't. I think it only helps because that athlete shows up the next day and says, coach, thanks for that. It really meant a lot.

Yeah. And they don't forget that either.

They don't forget that.

And the beauty of it is, they pay it forward. They're going to do it for somebody else. It may not be right away, but at some point in time, they'll remember that you did that for them and the impact it had on them, and they'll pay it forward. Can you talk about creating moments for your athletes? And sort of the whole source of where this intentionality, about the fact that every moment matters, I absolutely love that.

Something that Jerry and I have said a lot for years is right, your influence is never neutral. Right. You're always having a positive or negative effect, so you have to be intentional so you can have a positive effect. And the more aware you are of your influence, the greater your influence is. And, you know, so as. There's a great book brothers Chip and Dan Heath called the Power of Moments, and it really resonated with me, and I had Dan on the podcast two years ago or so when the book came out. Yeah, it's just awesome. And that whole book is about the research into what makes moments memorable, what makes them stick.

And all of us have moments in our life that have gotten us where we are, whether it was a coach, a teacher, something that someone outside of our family said to us that either built us up or cut our legs out from under us. This last night, I watched with my kids and my wife. We watched the movie Rudy, and my kids were like, wow. Everyone is telling him he can't do it. He can't do it, you know, as a kid. And that, you know, is this thing that, wow, if you're, you know, I look at that now and go, man, look at all those people who squashed every dream that kid had. What a tough thing. And yet he persevered. But not everyone perseveres through that.

So if we're intentional about these moments and we understand what are the times of insight and elevation and pride and connection that will be sticky as a coach, if we can be at our very best in those moments when they arise, man, oh, man, we're going to reach more athletes, we're going to reach more teams, and we're going to have more impact. And that's why every moment matters, because you don't know if today's the day. You don't know if this moment, this conversation with this kid on this day is the one that he or she is going to remember the rest of their life. And so if you blow off this moment and act like a jerk, those could be the words they carry with them for their whole life.

And I Firmly believe that. That's why from the moment you wake up to the moment you put your head back on your pillow at night, you are a coach. It's what you are. It's what you do. It's who you become. Would you agree with that statement?

Yeah, sure. And I think as that coach, you're bringing in all these qualities we talked about, right? That all these interactions are not transactions. Right. There are opportunities to have transformational moments. Right. To have someone leave that interaction with you, feeling better about herself, feeling better about their job, feeling better about their role on the team, and again, feeling very valued without necessarily being the mvp.

So let's talk about that. Creating moments for athletes. What are some of the things you have done in the past and you've seen other folks done that are pretty powerful?

Well, I mean, one of the things that I got from that book that really resonated with me and I've been super intentional about is first day experience. Right? So when a new player comes to my team their first day of practice, it used to be, hey, this is Joey. He's here with us today. All right, let's go on.

Right.

But now I go up and I take some time to talk to Joey and his parents, and I'll pull aside two of my kids before practice who I think are really epitomize what we're all about, what we value. And I'll say, hey, there's a new kid coming today. His name's Joe. He's just moved here from Colorado. He doesn't know anyone. Your job is to make this like the best practice he's ever had. So he's going to be with you in the warmup. He's going to be on your team. He's going to be part of everything that you do and just make it great for him and just by assigning those kids and paying attention to how his day is going. And at the end, hey, can you all thank Joe for coming out today? It was great.

I'm going to see more of that kid, whether he's got ability or not. And I think just, it's really important.

I don't know if you remember, John, but when we both had finished the book, then we touched base like three or four months later, because you vowed you're going to take that book and you're going to app at the first opportunity. And that just. That had just happened. I think there was a young lady that came and joined one of your teams, and that was. It was a huge deal. And you Said it was a complete home run.

Yeah, complete. And the parents contacted me after, like, what'd you do to my kid? Like, wow, that was amazing. Right? And so I've had the opportunity to do it a couple times now, and it's just really. I think it's great. And so these are just right. When we think about our first day at a new job, our first day on a new team, these are moments that can, like, if we walk out of that going, man, this company is the place I've always wanted to be my whole life. Or like, wow, I felt like I was just annoying everyone today because no one had any time for me. And I sat in my office reading the HR manual, and everyone I got introduced to was too busy to talk to me. You know, that first impression doesn't go away.

Right. And this brought me back to something in the book, and forgive me, because I might get this wrong, but you talked about the mirror effect. You know, when you see others yawn, you yawn. When you see other people smile, you smile. And the one that hit home was when you see someone else stub their toe or twist their ankle, you too, because you remember when that happened. But talk a little bit about as a leader, a team being a direct reflection of their head coach and with these young kids. Okay. And with the. With your team and with your players and how important it is for you to mirror Joy and for you to mirror all the things that you talk about in your book.

Yeah. And this goes back to, I think, your values, whatever they are being authentically you, because then you're not trying to be something that you're not when you're doing these things. Right. But, like, you know, when you model the behaviors that you want to see the most and you praise people and you reward people for modeling those same behaviors, you're going to get more of those behaviors. Right. This is just a fact of life. People want to be acknowledged. They want to be seen. And if you are consistently out in front of your people saying, joy gets you seen, compassion gets you seen. Right. Competitiveness gets you seen by me, then other people are going to go, I want to be seen, too. And then you get more of the behaviors that drive your team at its best.

But it all starts with you as the coach. Right. You want your team to be calm. Don't jump up and down on the sideline yelling at people to relax, because they're not going to be calm.

So before we get into the last couple questions, I want you to go ahead and share with Us where folks can find out about the book, where we can pre order it, we can find out more about Changing the Game project. Your previous. Tell us everywhere we can find. John o', Sullivan, Changing the Game Project Way of Champions. Go ahead.

Yeah, sure. So the new book, which is Every Moment Matters, how the world's best coaches Inspire their athletes and build championship teams. Just go to Amazon is where you're going to find that for December 2019 release. Super excited that you know people. I've already got a lot of people who follow our work chasing us around going, when can I order? When can I order? When can I order? And sometimes that's not up to the author, that's up to the powers that be. But certainly you'll be able to get it before the holidays this year. And then the mothership is changingthegameproject.com so that's where our blog is housed. That's where you can find our podcast Way of Champions and then connect to itunes or Spotify or Stitch or however you listen to your podcasts.

And then, yeah, on social media, we have a really big Facebook community. Parents and coaches now just look for Changing the Game project on Facebook and then Twitter and Instagram. It's TGProjectHQ.

Okay. That's CTG Project HQ.

Yeah, headquarters. Someone had CTG Project. I don't know who they are. They stole my Twitter account.

They stole it. They haven't tried to sell it to you? All right, that's awesome. So the fourth section of your book, John, you talk about defining success. Can you talk a little bit about why that is so significant and how you go about doing that?

Well, I think again, the longer that we coach and as we maybe become parents ourselves, like you are and like I am, and our coaches grow up and maybe they become coaches or we coach their kids, we again recognize that these moments matter and that our influence has not been neutral. And so when we start thinking about, you know, redefining success from just did we win to something deeper and more purposeful, that leaves a greater impact. Recognizing that maybe, hey, you know what, we're coaching the next generation of coaches. So how are they going to coach is probably going to be determined by how you coach them. And so how many potential future athletes are you influencing by being great today? Number two, you know, when you build that coaching tree, you just, you know, your sort of positive legacy lives on.

And number three, I think, you know, I've stopped defining my success. And did we win our league or did we win a championship? And I care more about, like, when a former player of mine invites me to their wedding. Right, Right. Like, that says that I was a good coach.

Right.

That says that I did my job in that moment for that player. You know, those tickets to life, you know, defining graduations and weddings and christenings and things like that, to me, that means that I made a real impact because I didn't get invited to a wedding because I taught them the 4. 3. 3. Right.

As far as you know. Right.

As far as I know. I hope not. Yeah.

Yeah. That is. In how. At what stage of the game did you start thinking about your legacy? Like, you know what? This is what's really important to me. My legacy.

Yeah. I don't know. You know, I think some people have asked, like, you know, what do you want your legacy to be? And I have certainly asked some people that question myself. And I don't, you know. You know, it's funny, you know, we asked that to Steve Kerr, and he said, you know, I don't really like that question because your legacy is what other people think of you.

Right.

Well, you should be really more concerned with, how does it feel inside? Am I being the best version of myself every day for my athletes, for my own children, for my spouse? And so I really think that if I can go out and influence parents, right? And people say, like, oh, does your work make a difference? Right. Is sport really changing? I'm like, well, you know what? When I get a dad who emails me and said, you saved my relationship with my kids, you can't put a price on that. If I save one relationship, one family, that's awesome. If I make one coach hit the pause button and rethink how he or she interacts with their athletes, how they build teams, then, my God, how many people will they influence in the next 20 years? Right? It could be hundreds, could be a thousand.

And so a thousand people's lives are better because, you know, this book reaches one coach, this book reaches a parent. And so we live in this world where we can reach a lot of people now, and it's kind of hard to cut through the noise. And so, you know, I just want to be someone that people can trust, that if you read something or you hear something, we say that, you know, that, like, hey, this is good information. It's been vetted. It's been researched. And, yeah, it's great.

It's great information. I love what you do, and I cannot have you on this podcast and not ask you to give some advice, because parents have such A significant impact on the experience of these young athletes. And every parent has different past, right. In sports. And some live vicariously through their children. Some just want, like you and I just want their children to have fun, to, you know, to play hard, to be a great teammate, to learn some character building, you know, behaviors. But there's sometimes there's conflict. There's conflict on certain teams and certain organizations. What advice, what suggestions, maybe some demands. What would you put on, Would you give to the parents?

I mean, number one, you're the advocate for the human being, not the athlete. Right? So your role in this, first and foremost is to make sure that play the long game. What kind of person do you want your child to grow up to be? And then make sure athletics supports those values and those goals, not just did he get a scholarship or did they win all their games? Because I see so many people, you know, their family values one thing, and then the sporting experience is the antithesis of that.

Completely incongruent.

Yeah. And so I think that's it. And then number two, just again, sort of be the model, right? Like, your kids need three things, right. They need to own the experience, they need to enjoy it, and they need to be intrinsically motivated. So create the space for them, the opportunities for them to try different things, support the things that they're passionate about. Right. When they want to shift gears for a bit, you know, allow them to shift gears if they need to try something new and again win the race to the right finish line, which isn't when they're 10 or 11.

Right?

Right. It's. It's that human being. Because no matter how good they are at sport, like I love this, we all end up in the bar league. Right? So some better than others.

You know, I love that in run to the right finish line while you're running to the right finish line. How significant is it for parents to not only allow their kids to fail, but to encourage them to get outside their comfort zone and fail? And then when they do fail, learn from it. Don't just run away.

Yeah. I mean, this is sport, is this perfect playground for our children to experience adversity. Right. And learn from it. And as the parent, if. If we helicopter in and scoop them out from any adversity, or if we don't allow adversity to happen by intervening on their behalf with their coaches or whatever, you know, we're. We're in trouble because they're not going to learn from it. And at some point they're going to hit that adversity, you know, and then. And so. So as a parent, if we just allow those desirable difficulties, as the term goes to happen, man, sport becomes this incredible vehicle for preparing them for life. And if they know that you're there and that you love them, here's what I always say.

Here's what I say to my own kids after every time they play, when they ask me how they did, right? So they open up the conversation and I ask them three questions, right? What went well? What needs work? What'd you learn today that you can work on and practice this week so that you can do better next week? And so if they scored three goals, it's the same three questions. If they gave up three goals and were awful, it's the same three questions, right? But it's that consistent response of something always went well. Something always needs work. And if there was a really difficult situation, what can you learn from it so that you can better next week? And I think that type of approach is really the type of consistency that kids need.

And when they have that, then they will ask you and they will invite you into their world. But if they think you're going to be angry, if they think that you're going to be overly critical, if they think that if they never know what behavior to expect from you, they're more likely to shut you out, Right?

And that's not a version of you that they want to be a part of either. And, you know, we talk about every moment matters. And when you really break it down, you have teaching moments and you have the moments of encouragement, the moments. You know, there's all sorts of different moments inside of that, and I love those. I love those three questions after each one. Well, John, hey, I cannot thank you enough. This was. This was phenomenal. Again, the book, Every Moment. How the World's Best Coaches Inspire Their Athletes in Business Build Championship Teams. Thank you so much, Ed.

It was an honor to be on. And what a great conversation. I wish we had another hour. We were just getting warmed up.

Well, I'll tell you what, we're going to. We're going to do an encore interview soon.

Amen.

All right. Thank you so much, Jen. Well, folks, this will be the last episode of 2019. And what a phenomenal conversation with John O' Sullivan to close out the year. Go grab his book, Every Moment. How the World's Best Coaches Inspire Their Athletes and Build Championship Teams. I'm telling you, it is as good of a read as you're going to find on that subject. Now, I want to take a minute to say a sincere and heartfelt thank you to you, the listener, for allowing the Athletics of Business podcast to be a part of your world. It means a lot to me and I know it means a lot to my guests. So thank you. By no stretch of the imagination am I taking December off as we are working on some really cool projects for 2020.

I will continue to share new content each week with the people on my VIP list. Now what is that list? It is not a sales funnel with the Drip campaign. This is my tribe. It's a group of leaders with whom the Athletics of Business mindset resonates. A group of leaders who are looking to grow and improve, to find new ways to continue to build their culture through authentic and resilient leadership. Leaders who embrace the coaching mindset and focus on transformational relationships, not transactional ones. In this content, I'm going to share stories, lessons, and here's the key strategies from the business world, sports world, as well as my unbelievable podcast guest. If you would like to receive this content, feel free to send me an email at my personal email Ed the Molitor Group or go to theathleticsofbusiness.com and sign up for the free ebook.

Again, you can send me an email at my personal email address Ed the Molitor Group or go to theathletics of business.com and sign up for the free ebook. Also, check out my blogs@themolitorgroup.com as well as my published articles on LinkedIn. Here's the thing. I love what I do, who I do it with, and who I do it for. And it's funny because I find myself in some unbelievably unscripted conversations, right? And I probably said that backwards, but you get the idea. And the other day, someone who I have a tremendous amount of respect for asked me why I thought I resonated with so many people and what separated me from others in my industry. And without thinking, my answer was really straightforward and simple. And I told him because I'm real. You know, I'm not slamming anyone or diminishing their content.

There's some phenomenal content out there. But here's the thing. I've been there. I do not simply repackage other people's content and regurgitate things I've read or studied and say it in a different way. I own my experiences. I own the lessons I share with you and the emotion that comes out when I talk, write and listen is real. I've lived it. I mean, I've been a part of championships, I've been fired as a coach. I've been in the trenches. And when you're in the trenches and share personal and collective struggles and victories with people, there's a certain level of substance and authenticity attached to your story. Heck, I've been a part of some amazing cultures and quite frankly, I've been a part of some very poisonous cultures. I understand what it takes to drive, build and sustain a resilient culture.

You know, those cultures that attract top talent, retain top talent, develop people. I've had three significant career transitions, four completely different industries, and I've succeeded each time. But not before experiencing failure, which tested my resolve. I mean, I've almost died twice through that adversity. I learned firsthand that I may not choose my circumstances, but you're darn right I had the power to choose my response and what I do with those circumstances. I'm authentic, I'm genuine. And what I tell you is what I have experienced firsthand. You think about it. What I teach, write and talk about, what I believe. Those are the things that have kept me alive, kept me moving forward and put me in the position to make a positive impact on people's lives. There's no pretense or BS about me, just a passion and a purpose.

And I think this gives me an edge. I have an edge in everything I do each day. I am comfortable with being uncomfortable because that's where I've spent my entire life. Mostly by design, but unfortunately there was many times where it was by default. And my energy comes from those experiences and crucibles. And so does my gratitude. And this time of year has the ability to provide enough stress in your life to last a lifetime. And you know exactly what I'm talking about. Here's the thing. Gratitude is what helps you grow through the stress causing challenges. Let me say that again. Gratitude is what helps you grow. Not get, but grow through the stress causing challenges. So be intentional in this holiday season about your gratitude. Be present, bring the positive energy. Sir.

And put yourself in the right frame of mind to go get what your team and your organization are after in 2020. Thank you for listening to the athletics of business. Be sure to give us a rating and review so we know how we're doing. For more information about the show, visit theathleticsofbusiness.com now get out there. Think, act and execute at the highest level to unleash your greatness.